It seems most of us are somewhat experimental by nature, based on the cartridge gun combos we use. I know this forumn is geared mainly towards max loads, but was wondering if any of you have gone to the other extreme.

Not sure how many hear go to sixgunner.com and read Paco Kelleys articles, but they are definately worth a read. He has mentioned using the medium and large bores with heavy cast bullets, and very light loads of fast powders.

I did a little bit of experimenting with this with the 35 whelen and 458 lott, and found that ~1gr of powder would push a bullet out there barrels with a cap gun report, yet penetrate most of a phone book. I was using universal clays, and would have had even better results with something really fast like bullseye or red dot.

I'm thinking that with the 500 Jeffrey, I could cast a pure lead bullet of 500-600 gr, turn off all but two of the driving bands, and use just enough powder to get it out of the barrel, with very little report.

I did have a few loads in the lott that didn't quite get the bullet out the barrel, made a neat metalic fooomp sound. With soft lead bullets, they are easily driven out with a cleaning rod if stuck. Use a 22 short case as a powder scoop, and a dab of dacron or cotton to keep the powder over the primer.

So, you can load your big bore to be quiter then an air rifle, and be much more effective on vermin.

Paul H,

I was reading over at sixgunner.com and under Paco Kelly's article links I found an article about "silent" loads. He was using very heavy bullets for caliber and fast powder too. According to the article, the loudest thing of the whole afair was the hammer falling on his 45-70 lever gun. I should have printed it out - it may be worth trying to find again.

redleg

Look under paco's back issues, it should be there somewhere. What really suprised me is was the relative power. With ~ 1 gr of universal, and a 150 gr .357 bullet, the whelen almost penetrated a full phone book. Now, with a faster powder, and heavier bullet, it should be better yet. The 500 Jeffrey will have a 25 1/2" barrel, should be enough to really burn the powder.

A 9mm makarov bullet is .365 or .366 diameter according to manafacturer. I had fun trying to make a 95gr XTP 9.3x62 varmint round, I thought I could truly have a 1 rifle does all package, from 95-320gr!

Unfortunately something went wrong. Whether it was the duplex load (never any pressure signs of any sort) or the dacron wadding I don't know but I now have a neat circular indentation all the way around the chamber of my rifle.... All of this was worked up with regular consultation with very experienced loaders who I asked repeatedly 'Can I possibly do any damage to my rifle?' the answers were allways no...

I won't do it or anything like it again. Atkinson (or shakespeare) would say 'one day doth not a summer make' but I am once bitten twice shy. It's a pity because it was really fun to shoot a 95gr bullet out of an African type rifle.

My pal who is a gunsmith says that reloading has given him more business than anything else. I guess I helped in that statistic!

Paul

Do you have some more details on loads?

I want to try this!!!

Hey Paul, give me an email.

[This message has been edited by John Ricks (edited 06-09-2001).]

1894,

Dacron wadding can do ring your chamber like that, according to some. The theory is that the wad is melted and accelerated before the bullet starts moving, slams into the base of the bullet and seals it before the pressure wave hits the base. It has been reported enough that I fear it.

I always used a tightly packed wad and never had a problem in my 308 or 416. (In some loads that was a lot of polyester batting!) I just use these for firelapping loads, and so have only shot a couple of hundred of them.

Don

1894, I have read about ringed chambers from dacron, but never with fast powder and subsonic loads. You said duplex load and varmint round so I suspect you used a faster load. As I load a lot cast bullets subsonic I would be glad if you told us the velocity and powder of the load that gave you the problem.
Goran

1894. You said "duplex load". That usually means either a use of two separate powders, or a long flash tube to ignite powder from the front of the case.
I hope you didn't mean either of those.
I don't know what powder charge you were using, but in fairly light loads, I've used a square of toilet paper cut into fourths. Works right well on mildly recoiling loads. Dacron is used on the harder kicking loads, and so far, I've had no problem with it's use. (Notice, I said, "So Far.") You also did not say how much dacron you used, which may have some bearing on what happened.
I shoot a .375 H&H using a 270 gr. cast bullet with a charge of IMR-4895 that doesn't fill the case, and a 1.0 gr. dacron wad pushed down onto the powder to hold it against the primer. It's a nice fun load, no problems so far.
I did ring the barrel on a Marlin 45-70, twice yet, by using .410 shotgun over powder wads (cardboard) placed upon the powder. Two nice little rings. The funny part about it, is the rifle is more accurate now with the rings than before. Don't ask me why, cuz I sure don't know.
Anyway, I really am curious to know a bit more about your loads that led to the chamber ringing. Go ahead and E-mail me, if you don't want to make them public.
Paul B.

Paul H, plinking with cast bullets around 1000 fps is a fine way too shoot lot of rounds for little money, low noise and no bruises. Accuracy can be as good as with normal loads. Heavy cast around 500 fps and almost silent can sometimes be handy. Drawback with these really slow ones is that beyond 50 yds they fall very fast.
I have a trick with a 6,5 mm gun and a Weaver 1-3 scope with duplex reticle I think also can be made with the big bores and other variable scopes. The gun is sighted in at 100 yds with a huntingload. With the scope set at 3x a round lead round ball about 900 fps hit just at the top of the bottom post at 50 yds. A silent load with a 140 gr lead bullet hit the same place with the scope set at 1,2x.

I don�t use fillers. They take too much time to prepare. I always use VV-310 and once tested a 30-06 load giving 934, 942 and 922 fps for three shots barrel first up to settle powder at primer. Normal handling horisontal at bench and feeding from magasine gave 919, 916 and 917 fps. That load have no use for a filler. But I admit when it comes to really silent loads I point barrel up first.

As been said chamberringing could come from dacron melting. I also read someone using plastic shotbuffer as filler noticed it melted at very low velocity. A really big bore is caliber 12 and when I used a cast Lee slug together with a WW wad to get a silent plinker I really had that plastic wad foul the bore. Just 3 shots and the barrel didn�t clean with standard solvents. Finally thinner with toluen dissolved the plastic. Besides accuracy was bad, but the noise was low and with a full caliber lubricated slug I may give it a new try.

If I would use a filler only to hold powder to primer it would be cotton. It may burn but it doesn�t melt. But when I tested it in silent loads it was important to have the same amount in every case and packed the same, otherwise velocity varied very much. The best was just enough to hold the powder. But with that little the chance for powder to trickle forward is greater. I would say the same goes for toiletpaper.

Goran

Try filling the case with cream of wheat. My recently deceased reloading guru always used that.

Yup, I think it was the dacron. For the record duplex load was 2gr unique and 15gr of IMR SR4759. The 9.3x62 has so large a hole and the bullet was so light that the SR would leave unburnt kernels in barrel and case. The unique (after supposedly expert advice) was to provide better ignition and 'could do no harm......' The primers still looked like they do if you fire a primer only in an empty case with no bullet so I do think it was the dacron.

I worked up the dacron from 1gr to 3gr, I can't tell you which was responsible. I only fired 10 rounds and as far as I can tell only one round caused the problem. Rest assured I will not be trying either again!

[This message has been edited by 1894 (edited 06-11-2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1894:
[B]Yup, I think it was the dacron. For the record duplex load was 2gr unique and 15gr of IMR SR4759. The 9.3x62 has so large a hole and the bullet was so light that the SR would leave unburnt kernels in barrel and case. The unique (after supposedly expert advice) was to provide better ignition and 'could do no harm......' The primers still looked like they do if you fire a primer only in an empty case with no bullet so I do think it was the dacron.

1894, sorry for your bad experience with low velocity loads. But you made it unnecessarily complicated with your choice of powder. Even if SR4759 is a powder for reduced loads that light bullet together with that low charge giving unburnt powder is no surprise. Little unburnt powder is no problem, but trying to compensate low pressure with primer powder and filler certainly became a problem. A well known load of 13 gr Red Dot could have made no need for both duplex load and filler.

But for the silent loads Paul H has in mind it must be heavy lead bullets, preferable pure lead. Problem with your 9,3 mm is that LEE, Lyman and RCBS doesn�t make moulds for it. But LEE makes a round bullet mould of .375 that will be good enough. Even with Bullseye or VV-310 it might be some unburnt powder for the really low velocity, but don�t try to fix it.

Goran