For the last couple of months I have been working on a .416 Rigby page.
The .416 Rigby Page
I know it's not much yet, it's a work in progress. My intention is to (someday) have a one-stop resource for all things related to the .416 Rigby.
At this point I am gathering load data for the upcoming load data page. If anyone here has a good/favorite/pet load that they would like to share, plese send it to me for inclusion on the page.
I'm interested in hunting loads (obviously) and also light target/practice loads.
Please include:
Bullet manufacturer/weight/design, etc.
Powder type and charge.
Case used.
Primer used.
Velocity, energy,and pressure infomation if known.
Any accuracy results?
Ever used it in the field? What were the results?
General Comments?
Do you want me to give you credit for the load on the site? If so, how would you like your name/handle to read?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Dave

Send to: spinynorman986@yahoo.com

PS - I could also use case dimension drawings that would not be a copyright violation for me to post.

dz86,
How about this .416 Rigby load:

Bullet: GS Custom 380-grain FN (monometal, copper, true-driving-banded, flat nose solid)

Powder: H4831 Extreme, Long Cut, or SC (Short Cut) may be used at same charge weight of 105.0 grains.

Case: Norma

Primer: Federal GM215M

Velocity: 2509 fps

KE: 5310 ft-lbs

Pressure: "mild"

Accuracy: 3-shot group at 115-yards was 0.169" center-to-center, equivalent to 0.147" at 100 yards, or equivalent to 0.140 MOA for 3 shots.

Field use: One shot = One dead cape Buffalo.
You can find the story of the buffalo's broken shoulder and pierced heart, as well as the single sight-in bullet that penetrated more than one large Botswana umbrella thorn tree at: www.gscustom.co.za
where you will find:
www.gsgroup.co.za/rab.html

General Comments: Jack O'Connor's favorite load for his .416 Rigby was 105 grains of the old war surplus H4831. It worked well for him with any 400 to 410 grainer. The new H4831 by Hodgdon (made in Australia as AR 2213 and repackaged for us Yanks) still does great with any 380 to 410 grainers I have tried.

Credit: Jack O'connor, with modern refinement by Ron Berry.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
dz86,
How about this .416 Rigby load:

Bullet: GS Custom 380-grain FN (monometal, copper, true-driving-banded, flat nose solid)

Powder: H4831 Extreme, Long Cut, or SC (Short Cut) may be used at same charge weight of 105.0 grains.

Case: Norma

Primer: Federal GM215M

Velocity: 2509 fps

Pressure: "mild"


Credit: Jack O'connor, with modern refinement by Ron Berry.

I think "mild" is a subjective judgement on this load. In fact, I'll bet lunch at Marius & Jeannette in Paris that it's over CIP maximum average pressure, which is 3,250 piezo bars, or 47,125 piezo psi. Ron, ever had your load pressure tested?

dz86, I love it when one of our members goes to the trouble to assemble good info. Don't forget to provide a link to it under the appropriate section of AR when you get it substantially completed.

Thanks for the input.
I have received responses from three board members here so far. I hope to have more.
Someone on another board suggested that I do a web search for .416 Rigby load data and post that. That would be easy enough to do. But that's not what I'm looking for here. I'm looking for guys to share their "tried n' true" loads. Loads that they have personally used, and know to be good loads. Factory load info is already readily available elsewhere.
Thanks again for the help, everyone.
Dave

Wink,
I do not make bets with French meals as the stakes.

My load may be over the antique rifle CIP standard for pressure. I do not have pressure testing data on it. "Mild" is indeed just subjective for my rifle. That was a Second Generation Fat Barrel Ruger RSM that was so accurate with the GSC bullet.

Jack O'connor was happy with a similar load in the 1950's, in a Brevex (French) Magnum Mauser.

Maybe the CIP standard you speak of should be reserved for standard M98's opened up to .416 Rigby length.

dz86,
Maybe you should add the above comments by Wink and I to the "General Comments" section for the load.

Darn, we're both missing a good meal. I prefer French restaurant bets. If I lose I still win. As for the "antiquated" CIP pressure standard, how does it compare with ultra-modern SAAMI standard?

Wink,
The SAAMI standards would be the same as for the CIP. They do that as safety for the antiquated opened up M98 standard action with the larger bolt thrust of the .416 Rigby.

We with magnum actions are free to use pressures a bit higher.

I SWAG my Jack O'Connor load could be below 50,000 psi with the 380-grain GSC, and well below 55,000 psi with the 400-grain Swift A-Frame, which is full diameter with smooth shank and long bearing surface.

Brass by Norma or similar make is no worries to well over 60,000 psi.

A CZ 550 Magnum, Ruger RSM, or true magnum action (Dakota, Magnum Mauser, etc.) is no worries to 75,000 psi at least, with the .416 Rigby case head, regarding bolt thrust issues.

AccuLoadIII can be "played with" to show a 380 grain "generic bullet" of 1.400" length (that is the length of the GSC FN) to give one representative load as so in a 24" barrel:
42,850 psi >>> 2375 fps
50,000 psi >>> 2510 fps

Here are the actual averages for 3 shots each powder charge weight of H4831 with the .416/380-grain FN, in my 24" barreled RSM:

104 grains >>> 2475 fps
105 grains >>> 2509 fps (most accurate) (0.140 MOA 3-shot)
106 grains >>> 2534 fps
107 grains >>> 2546 fps
108 grains >>> 2574 fps

Here are the velocities for 3-shots each, same rifle, all with 104 grains of H4831, different bullets:

Swift 400-grain A-Frame >>> 2451 fps
Hornady 400-grain steel FMJ >>> 2491 fps
Speer 400-grain AGS solid >>> 2452 fps
Barnes 400-grain brass round nose solid >>> 2431 fps
GSC 380-grain FN solid >>> 2475 fps

105 grains of H4831 with the Swift 400-grain A-Frame gave 2482 fps, and it too started shooting into one hole, not quite as small as the GSC group.

That 105 grain powder charge with H4831 was blessed by Jack O'Connor. It makes any bullet from 350 grains to 410 grains shoot very accurately. Spooky.

Maybe not for antiquated standard M98's opened up to .416 Rigby length. Harry Selby used velocities in the 2300 fps ball park with his 410 grains.

I got 2373 fps in the same rifle with Federal factory loads with the 410-grain Woodleigh Weldcore RNSP, and a 3-shot group of 0.680" at 100 yards. Not bad, and O.K. for antiques.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
dz86,
Maybe you should add the above comments by Wink and I to the "General Comments" section for the load.

Will do.

Dave

RIPs 416 load is quite safe. There are no major reloading manuals that list loads for 380gr bullets that I could find but loads for 400gr and 350gr bullets are plentiful:
400gr Jacketed Bullets
Hodgdon #27 - 106gr H4831 = 2422fps
Norma #1 - 107.5gr MRP-2 = 2431fps
350gr Jacketed Bullets
Lyman #47 - 114gr IMR7828 = 2644fps
Lyman #47 - 99gr WW-760 = 2601fps

Given that 380 gr is about mid way between 400 and 350 and that a drive band bullet is used, 2500fps is safe without doubt.

By RIP

quote:

Jack O'connor was happy with a similar load in the 1950's, in a Brevex (French) Magnum Mauser.

JOC's 416 Magnum Mauser



465H&H

465: Thanks for posting the photo. JOC's .416 is just bloody beautiful.

Gerard,
Thanks for the moral support. Maybe Jack O'Connor is not an idiot, eh?

465H&H,
Thanks for enriching this thread with a picture of Jack's rifle that liked 105 grains of H4831.

Spiny Norman,
Thanks for the links:
http://www.spinynorman986.com/id11.html

RIP,

I've moved the .416 Rigby Page to:

www.416rigby.blogspot.com

I just finished working out the layout and moving over the posts this evening.

465 - thanks for the photo. If only that rifle could talk...

Dave

Best for me is as the others have said- 105 H4831 mine with the 370 North Fork for 2530 fps and some three shot cloverleafs.

dz86,
I surfed your .416 Rigby page. It just keeps getting better.

I did finally realized that I typoed the MOA size of my version of the Jack O'Connor memorial load.

That should be 0.140 MOA for 3 shots at 100 yards, not 0.154 MOA.

Thanks.

May you live long and prosper, as the Rigby Force is with you.

dz86

I have been reloading for the 416 Rigby for many years. Your web page is wonderful and thank you very much for putting all that information together.

94 grain V160
400 grain Hornady
Fed 215 primer
Norma brass
Velocity 2370 Ft/sec


96 grain V160
Hawk 500 grain
Fed 215
Norma brass
Velocity 2280 Ft/sec

Rifle: Golmatic action, lothar Walter barrel of 26"
Shooting ironsights only accuracy at 100 meters
is 2-3 " or 5-7 cm in spread.

110 grain V160 (light compressed)
Impala 250grain bullet
Fed 215
Norma brass
Velocity 2980 Ft/sec
No accuracy results yet..!

quote:

Originally posted by Dr L. S. Wirthlin:
dz86

I have been reloading for the 416 Rigby for many years. Your web page is wonderful and thank you very much for putting all that information together.

Thank you very much for your kind words.

When I bought my first big bore rifle about two years ago, a .416 Taylor, someone here directed me to the .416 Taylor page.
I promptly sold the Taylor and bought the Rigby (long story) I discovered there was no such "one stop" resource. So I decided to make one.
It's been quite a bit of work, it might not look like it, but it has been. So far, there has not been lots of interest. But a few people from this board have hung in there and really given me lots of guidance and advice and I really appreciate that.
I hope that in the end it turns out to have been worthwhile and people get some use out of it.
You guys here have far more experience with these rifles than I do. If you have things to add to the base of knowledge, by all means email it to me. I might not use it right away, but I'm trying to compile all the things that I can.
I may start on a hunting stories and photos series next, if there is enough interest.
Thanks again for the support.

Dave

PS - jstevens, I finally got your load data published today. Sorry that it took so long.

Jack O'Connor had two .416 Rigby's, the first on an Enfield built in the mid 1950's, the second on a Brevex Magnum Mauser (pictured above) in the mid 1960's.

What Jack said about his load for the .416 Rigby: "Incidentally, I load mine with 105 grains of No. 4831 powder behind the 400-grain Barnes .416 bullet. The velocity is 2,450. The energy is considerably above that of the British load ... " (page 230 of _Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns_).

Jack was using that load in his Enfield.

In _The Hunting Rifle_ (page 31) jack said: "I have heard of flat-bridge magnum Mauser actions selling for as much as $250. Since the war a limited number of large, heavy, very strong "Brevex" mauser actions have been made in Paris. These are true magnum Mauser actions, suitable for big cartridges and not simply Model 98 actions whittled up and weakened to take them. I have a handsome rifle for the .416 Rigby cartridge built on one of them."

The Brevex was a round top, drilled and tapped for scope mounts as in Jack's rifle.

Correction: 1950's in an Enfield, and 1960's in a Brevex. Jack grew wiser with age.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
By RIP

quote:

Jack O'connor was happy with a similar load in the 1950's, in a Brevex (French) Magnum Mauser.

JOC's 416 Magnum Mauser



465H&H

What Eldon "Buck" Buckner said about Jack's Brevex, in Robert Anderson's _Jack O'Connor, The Legendary Life of America's Greatest Gunwriter_:

Brevex Mauser Burgess-Johnson Custom in .416 Rigby, #66179: Made in 1966 on a Brevex Magnum Mauser action, this was Jack's second .416 Rigby. It had a 24-inch barrel fitted with gold-faced post ramp front sight, open-vee rear sight on a permanent base (which Rip thinks is a Pre-64 Winchester M70 African type rear sight), and a Weaver K2.5 on special Burgess bases marked "Thos. Burgess, Riflemaker, Spokane, Wash." and "Caliber .416 Rigby." It has a jeweled bolt and magazine follower, Burgess-hinged floor plate with trigger-guard release, magazine to hold three rounds, and a front sling swivel attached to the barrel. The Bob Johnson stock has an ebony fore-end tip, simple arrowhead-checkered pattern on fore-arm and grip, checkered-steel grip cap, and solid red rubber recoil pad. The wood is modestly figured, straight-grain walnut. The gun weighs 10-1/4 pounds empty. This rifle was used on the 1969 Zambian safari to take Jack's best African lion, his only bull elephant, and a cape buffalo."

RIP,

Thanks for all of the info. This has been an interesting thread!

I could still use some more "pet loads" on the site if anyone has any they'd like to share.

Dave

dz86,
My only other pet load is similar to another you have posted, and could be used under the same section as confirmation of my fellow rifleman's load performance in the field, just as so many of us have confirmed the "JOC Memorial" load with various bullets.

This was from before my conversion to Hodgdon Extreme powders and GSC bullets for ultimate temperature insensitivity and ultimate accuracy, but it served very well to produce 1 MOA accuracy (about 2 inches for 3 shots at 200 yards) and knock down a water buffalo at 50 yards, and a fallow deer at 342 yards:

Federal brass
F215 primer
101.0 grains of IMR-4831
350-grain Barnes XFB
24" barrel MV = 2670 fps

If I were doing it over, I would substitute H4350 powder, start at about 95 grains and work up to 2700 fps, with any available 330-grain (GSC HV) to 350-grain (Barnes TSX) bullet. Then I would pick the bullet and velocity, around 2700 fps, from these two that was most accurate in my rifle.

This makes the .416 Rigby into a Magnum-Actioned 30-06: the 40-06

Soon the .395 Tatanka will become the "Forty-Double-Ought-Seven" whenever Harry McGowen's carbide button maker gets off his duff. Maybe he was confused by Harry's order, having never made a rifling button for .395 groove and .387 bore diameter?

Thanks Don. I really appreciate all the support.

Anyone else have any pet loads to share?

Dave

Here is a load for an aussie made bullet, fine for general feral game, it is not a premium bullet but in my opinion is better suited to thin skinned larger feral animals as it will expand nicely, it would be an excellent bullet for feral horses;

The cannelure for this bullet is to far back, I have discussed this issue with staff at Taipan bullets I use a ch4d cannelure cutter to re cut it correctly.

Taipan 400 gr RN soft (made by Malcome Bone)
Norma Case and Federal 215m Primer
98 Gr of AR2209 this load would be around 2500 fps at a guess.

Forgot to add rifle is a cz 550 with custom kevlal/fiberglass stock with leupold 1-4 scope.

My 416 Rigby Load Data.
Rifle is a Dakota M-76 with a 24" barrel with 1.5-5x Leupold scope.

Brass for all loads was NORMA
Primers for all loads were Federal #215M

Disclaimer: all of this load data was developed in my rifle and may not be safe in your's. Therefore, reduce all loads and work up your own loads in your own rifle, looking for signs of pressure. I do not imply or warrant the safety of these loads in any other rifles than mine.


410gr. Woodleigh Solid
96.0grs. H-4350
velocity = 2470fps
comments: <1" @ 100 yards


410gr. Woodleigh Solid
104grs. H-4831sc
velocity = 2467fps
comments: <1" @ 100 yards

400gr. Hornaday Solid
105grs. H-4831sc
velocity = 2464fps
comments: 1" @ 100 yards

400gr. Barnes XLC (old blue coated bullet)
96.0grs. H-4350
velocity = 2483fps
comments: <1" @ 100 yards

400gr. Barnes TSX
96.0grs. H-4350
velocity - need to chronograph


400gr. Barnes Banded Solid
96.5grs. H-4350
velocity - need to chronograph
comments: 1 hole group @ 50 yards; <1" @ 100 yards

370gr. Northfork
104grs. H-4831sc
velocity - need to chronograph
comments: <1" @ 100 yards

410gr. Woodleigh Solid
104grs. H-4831sc
velocity = 2467fps
comments: <1" @ 100 yards

400gr. Hornaday Solid
96.0grs. H-4350
velocity = 2512fps

400gr. Hornaday Solid
105grs. H-4831sc
velocity = 2464fps
Comments: 1" @ 100 yards


More Data (shot strings/load development data):


350gr. Barnes TSX
RL-22
108.0grs = 2676fps
108.5grs. = 2624fps
109.0grs = 2623fps
109.5grs. = 2643fps
110.0grs. = 2668fps
comments: 108gr.-110gr. loads shot a composite 1" group @ 100 yards


350gr. Barnes TSX
H-4350
102.0grs. = 2655fps
102.5grs. = 2664fps
103.0grs. = 2586fps
103.5grs. = 2669fps
comments: 103.5gr.-104gr. loads shot with in 1/2" @ 100 yards


350gr. Barnes TSX
IMR-4831
101grs. = 2609fps
101.5grs. = 2586fps
102.0grs = 2586fps
102.5grs = 2602fps
103.0grs. = 2606fps
comments: 102.5grs.-103.0grs. loads shot with in 1/2" @ 100 yards

Thank you very much PC, and MHC_TX.

Dave

112 grains of RL 22 with Barnes 300 grain X's. My #1 likes them but my shoulder sure as hell doesn't. A tad under 3000 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by dz86:
Thank you very much PC, and MHC_TX.

Dave

DZ no dramas..............I like that Taipan load as it shoots to the same point of impact as Barnes X 400 gr bullets in my gun, the woodleigh 410's shoot a little lower or higher I forget off the top of my head, but I have a mark on my scope dials where with a a quick adjustment I can go from the woodleigh 410 gr to the Taipan/Barnes X combo.

The .416 is a wonderful caliber while it kicks it's not that Brutal and you get a 30/06 aprox Trajectory.

Well done on your web page !! we need a current rifle manufacturer " heading there if it's not already doneand maybe we could all send you photo's of our rifles if you wanted to add a section for .416 Rigby fans own personal rifles.

PC,

1. The "current rifle manufacturer" page was started about a week ago, it just isn't finished yet. I've been pretty busy at work this week. I'll post it as soon as it is done.

2. I have posted the only personal rifle that anyone has submitted so far, and have noted on the site that I would be happy to do so for others.
I believe that you have the right idea though. Perhaps if I start a page for them, people will submit them.

3. Do you have contact info for Taipan? If so, I'll add them to the bullet manufacturer list.

Dave

P.S. Thanks for the load Brain 1. I'll get it added to the site in a day or two.