I have been wanting a 10-bore muzzleloading double rifle since I read Baker's "Nile Tributaries" back in 1988. Pedersoli now makes a .715 caliber double which is basically a rifle version of their 10 gauge shotgun, a slightly larger frame than the original Kodiak Mk III double rifle. I know that the .58 Kodiak can be loaded with 700 grain bullets on top of 150 grains of Pyrodex (almost 190 grains of black) and are proofed with 300 grains of FFFg and a 1020 grain bullet. What I would like to know is the heaviest sane load that can be fired from the new gun. I think a 500 gr roundball and 160 grains of black for 1750 fps is a cinch, but I am curious about the possibility of 900 grains in a belted ball or 12 bore style single grooved ball over 160 to 190 grains of powder. Anyone have experience with any of these weapons?
2) The whale hunters use harpoons fired with compressed air.
3) Is your hunting area next to a Nuclear Power Plant?
Just being gregarious this morning. Please don't take offense . Obviously, I haven't read the article and don't know what I'm talking about. Figured I'd say that before anyone else did. Everything I say in this post should be disregarded and forgotten.
Regarding another rifle that October Country makes, their website states, "The rifle is designed to shoot an .820 diameter round ball over 300 grains of Fg powder. With this load, muzzle velocity reaches about 1,435 fps."
[This message has been edited by 500grains (edited 08-23-2001).]
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002
I have an H&R single shot rifled twelve gauge in a 10 gauge barrel blank. This heavy barrel really helps the accuracy. It shoots clover leafs at 50 yards, 1.5 inches at 100 yards.
Extinct?! Heck no! I'm overrun! And as for nuclear power plants, that doubtless explains the eerie green glow coming off the cooling ponds by the big facility next to the chicken farm. Hmmmm... I think there may be a correlation here.
GeorgeS, I fear you may be correct! COL Mike Powasnick, the co-founder of Trail Guns Armory that first brought the Kodiak rifle to my attention many years ago wrote me that the recoil of maximum safe loads in the .58 would be shattering to most modern Homo sapiens, possibly dangerous. The rifles are too light. Baker's No. 10s weighed around 14 lbs and I have given serious consideration to adding a recoil reducer to the butt if it looks like the loads would be too brisk. But really I don't want to even venture into this territory if shooting the behemoth is no fun. Whether I ever hunt with it is a secondary consideration and weight may be a question there.
500grains, I am aware of the October Country rifles but the last time I looked they cost roughly 10X what the Pedersoli runs. I'll revisit the site though. Thanks.
DonG, it sounds like you've got something functionally similar (though very light I suspect). I think a straight 12 bore runs .729 caliber. The Pedersoli is actually about a 13 bore, so I call it a .700 since that sounds more impressive.
Where would one of those monsters be found and what is the asking price of one? Sounds like a lot of fun to play with. I know October country is way out of my wifes approval range right at the moment.
Sent an e-mail to Davide Pedersoli asking them what there maximum recommended load is for the .715 big bore MkIII Kodiak Express. Also inquired as to what the proof house used for a load.
I am still awaiting a reply, they hae been good in the past with replying. It does however seem to take them sometime to get back with you. Anyway, when I get an answer I will post it here.
you ought to mail that gun to the good senitor Condit from California, apparantly he likes rough sex, according to our newspaper this morning.....that would fix his lieing a$$....
Todd E, I am afraid that Pedersoli is going to recommend a max load of about 150 grs behind a roundball (500 - 545 gr). The loads that I quoted above for the .58 version were not recommended by the manufacturer, they were developed by Powasnick. Baker used six or seven drams (164 or 191 grs) of Curtis & Harvey powder (which is much sterner stuff than any made today) under a 2 ounce or 3 ounce ball. However, his rifles had much heavier barrels (albeit weaker steel) and a larger bore (.775 caliber). Heavy 10 ga loads allow up to 160 grains pushing a 1-3/4 ounce load of shot and I would be happy with 160 grains behind a 900 grain paper patched or bore riding bullet. Even a hot roundball load may be pretty fun and also quite powerful. Heat treated wheelweights would probably penetrate like there's no tomorrow while the soft alloy balls would make a cavern for a wound.
[This message has been edited by Harald (edited 08-26-2001).]
Go ahead; Rigby have done something similer by making .775 NitroEx.Their version is fine sidelock ejector and is claimed as best buffalo medicine.It is claimed that any person who can shoot 10Ga, will easily control .775.
Rao, the .775 Rigby blackpowder (as opposed to the nitro version) is exactly the ballistics that I am after: 900 gr bullet at 1500 fps (although I'll be happy if I can make 1300 fps). I think the older Rigby used a collosal charge of black powder but I cannot remember how much. The nitro version would presumably compete with the .600 Jeffery in the 1850 to 1950 fps range (or faster?).
I'm new here but feel I can shed some light on the topic. I was getting ready to post a 775 Rigby topic myself before I searched and found this one. Harald, I know of two BP loads for the 775. One has 5 drams of BP pushing a 1150 grain solid to 900 fps. The other is a 1350 grain exploding shell(hollow point filled with 50-50 mix of antimony sulphate and potassium chlorate) pushed to 750 fps by the same 5 dram load. Interestingly, you can use 42-52.5 grains of Blue Dot to approximate the BP loads. Loads used 2 7/8" brass 10 guage hulls. All info taken from an article by John Dickson titled "It's a 775 Rigby" in the 50 edition(1996) of Gun Digest. I WANT ONE!!!
I remember reading that article years ago but I had forgotten how low the velocities were. I think Baker got at least 1000 fps from his 3 oz (1350 gr) 10 bore bullets. He was using 7 drams of powder if memory serves.
My big concerns with the large frame Kodiak are whether the thing can take that kind of recoil without flying apart (and injuring the shooter) and whether the twist rate is sufficient to stabilize a stubby belted ball weighing 900 grains.
Harald.... I have not seen the rifle personaly but you might also want to consider the twist. I know their 58 cal has a 1-48" and a number of recovered conical bullets show signs of tumbling in game, with limited penetration. Many of these "modern" BPs are intended for stubby bullets or round balls (though true round ball rifles have twists between 60+ to 100"). just a thought take care sf
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001
Harald, the .72 cal. Kodiak ONLY has a 1 in 86" twist! It's intended as a "ball-only" smokepole, however several people have tried 12 slugs With decent success. The slugs tend to be much lighter than the old conicals that the ivory hunters shot years ago.
quote:The Lyman slug I use is the one shaped like a giant airgun pellet (I'll have to look the number up). At 100 yards they shoot 2-3 inches. The Lee 12g slug is a very tight fit and shoots 3-4 inches.
This is Blackpowderburner's (New Member # 8373) findings with his .72 Kodiak. We have been discussing this very topic in the Black Powder forum here.
FYI, I contacted Pedersoli and asked them to release the .72 Kodiak with a 1:48 twist and rename it the .72 African Express to distinguish between the two. I explained to them that I had an interest in shooting conicals instead of balls. I never got a responce back. Interesting sidenote, it was originally offered in the 1:48 twist!!! If I could only find an early model!!! Another tidbit, the 775 Rigby in the article that I am referring to has a 1:41 twist. Earlier 10 bores, normally had 1:70 according to the same article, so if the .72 Kodiak had the 1:48 twist it'd be very close to the Rigby in the article but only being a 12(13) bore!!!!!
quote: My big concerns with the large frame Kodiak are whether the thing can take that kind of recoil without flying apart (and injuring the shooter) and whether the twist rate is sufficient to stabilize a stubby belted ball weighing 900 grains.
Harald, the Kodiak is "proofed" to 150 grains of BP under the ball(I think the balls are slightly over 500 grains), even though you won't see D.P. recommend that load.
What the hell IS overkill?!? There is no such thing. You can never "overkill" something, as once it's dead, it's just that---DEAD. Remember, always carry the LARGEST weapon you can comfortably handle!!! My .416 Rigby is about maximum for me.
Oh, BTW, feel free to personally email Pedersoli yourself and recommend that they change the twist rate from 1:86" to 1:48" twist on the .72 Kodiak(African?) Express. It couldn't hurt!
That is a good looking rifle. I showed this to my wife and she thinks it looks cool. So do I.
Is there any reason the rifles barrels couldn't be reamed to remove the slow twist and a faster twist cut without messing up the regulation? You could have a custom mold made to cast those exploding flat nosed slugs. Now THAT would be cool.
Have you seen the 4-bore at October Country Muzzle Loaders? YIKES!
Roger, I have October Country's catalog. I'd love to have that 8 bore double but $5000 is a bit much for a ball shooting barrel stoker. It's way heavy too!!!
NO DOUBT!!! The O.C. double weighs about the same as my 6mm PPC HV benchrest rifle and mine was intended to be only shot off the bench!
I wish the O.C. double had a 1:48" twist for conicals. Instead, it has 1:144" twist which will of course ONLY stabilize a ball. At least that ball is an .82 cal, 835 grain bone smasher!
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Interesting sidenote, it was originally offered in the 1:48 twist!!! If I could only find an early model!!! Another tidbit, the 775 Rigby in the article that I am referring to has a 1:41 twist. Earlier 10 bores, normally had 1:70 according to the same article, so if the .72 Kodiak had the 1:48 twist it'd be very close to the Rigby in the article but only being a 12(13) bore!!!!! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon}
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