C'mon John, no need for two 375s in any configuation, get a 416 Rem or Rigby...maybe get real stuffy and get a 404 Jefferys, now thats class!

Since you are putting another barrel on it anyway, why not a .375Wby. You can always shoot .375h&h in a pinch & the extra 100-150fps may come in handy. Recoil, as always, is going to be subjective. Good luck w/ the project.

Here's one for the gallery:
A (good) friend who won't be going back to Africa gave me an A V Sako 375 H&H lightweight hunter rifle. It is Magna-ported. Having been hammered by other people's braked rifle blasts I won't use a break or ports. I pulled the barrel, and found a free unfired Sako .375 H&H take off barrel (don't ask me to explain this short streak of undeserved good luck; I've led a dissolute and badly behaved life). The new barrel doesn't index exactly, so I will have my gunsmith set it back a thread and re-chamber it. He thinks I should go for a 375 Weatherby chamber (without freebore).
I already have plenty of 375 H&H brass, dies, and loading data. I also have an open mind on the subject (shooting Rockchucks with a 416 Rigby in the sun will open most peoples' minds).
Anyway, the questions before the court include, but are not limited to:
1. Is the extra 100 - 150 fps worth the extra 10 grains of powder?
2. Will the recoil in a Sako lightweight hunter go from not too bad to disconcerting?
3. Given safe and sane reloading practices with temperature stable propellants (God bless the Aussies who make Hodgdon powders) is there going to be any significant difference in ease of feeding and extraction when the temperature is hot and so is the shit running down your leg because you just made a big boo-boo?
4. Is it just Americans born after WWII who have that defective gene that causes them to think that Weatherby cartridges just look cool, or is that a personal moral failing?
5. Does anybody have any experience with the 375 Weatherby, and if so how much did the rifle weigh?
Thanks for your indulgence and I look forward to your views.
JCN

Basically, the 375 Wthyby. is one of better Improved 375 chamberings out there. As with most Improved chamberings, normal rounds can be used in case the Improved rounds get used up or lost. I believe RIP has one and has posted on his results sometime back. Maybe you can PM him for further details. He was responsible for the 375 Wthyby. data on Saeeds Reloading Page.

JCN,

I have both the .375 H&H and the .375 Weatherby and between the two I prefer the Weatherby version. I like to be able to use H&H ammo if something was to happen to my reloads. I believe you are getting good advice from your gunsmith and I would go with it. Lawdog

Thanks 475 Guy,
I would probably use Hornady basic brass to make cases with and just use the spendy Weatherby cases for trips to places that want to see appropriately headstamped cartridges. I'll look up RIP's headstone.
JCN

1. No
2. Yes
3. In extraction, probably not. In feeding, youbetcha! That long sloping H&H case is the shape it is on purpose. During the "Oh sh*t!" moments, velocity don't mean squat. Reliability is everything.
4. Most certainly a personal moral failing. I was born after WWII and have little, if any, use for Weatherby designs.
5. My H&H weighs 9.25 lbs. with scope and is a lamb to shoot. You are the one who shot rockchucks with a Rigby, figure it out yourself.

Any advantage the Wby has over the std. 375 H&H is mostly in the mind of the shooter IMO....The 375 carries a great set of credentials and 150 FPS is nothing on a cape buffalo, whereas a 416 or 500 bore might be....

Also, the 375 Wby is more expensive to shoot and less likly to have near the easy access to ammo in a foriegn land...I have a lot of big bore rifles, but I have never been without the classic 375 H&H, nor will I ever be more than a hands width from one....

Yeah Sarge,
But I didn't have a choice. I was minding my own business driving up in the Owyhee mountains (taking the scenic way home from a housecall on a rancher who just happens to have one or two deer on his place) when I saw a few communist Rockchucks (they had reddish fur). I had already wasted all my .223 ammo on ground squirrels earlier in the week and had forgotten to refill the ashtray... Defending America ain't easy; you know that.
JCN

Ray, Law Dog, 475, Sarge, et al,
The only solution is to build up one of each. I'll leave the Sako as an H&H because the iron sights are already set up and I'm lazy. There is always a used Winchester or CZ 375 in the rack at Boise Gun Company. I'll rechamber one of those (can't stand having a positive balance in my account there anyway). OK, does anybody have a PPG 375 H&H reamer that I can rent for a few days?
Thanks,
JFN

John,

You got it figured out already, I see, but allow me to run down the list too, admitting first of all that the grand old slippery devil 375 H&H is adequate for anything and everything. Therefore the 375 WBY can do that and more, like so:



1. The 375 WBY allows significant improvement with the heavier bullets. With modest pressures and medium/slow powders, it will move the 300 to 350 grain bullets at 200 to 250 fps faster than the 375 H&H. With the lighter bullets of 270 grains or less, 150 fps is probably average for same pressure loads as the 375 H&H.



I have done a bit more shooting since I submitted the loads to Saeed for the 375 WBY page in the reloading section. The initial shooting was with a Winchester M70 rechambered to 375 WBY. The additional shooting was with a CZ 550 Magnum rechambered to 375 WBY and a powder not previously listed by me: H4350 Extreme



Roughly, 84 grains of H4350 gave 2700 fps in the 25" CZ barrel, using F215 primers, Weatherby (Norma) brass, 300 grain Sierra GameKings,and a 3.600" COL.



The CZ's long magazine allowed me to seat the same bullet out to 3.750" and use the same components except 88 grains of H4350, for over 2800 fps, and sub-MOA accuracy.



The same Dave Manson reamer with only 0.370" freebore was used to chamber both rifles.



I also have a Whitworth Mark X Mauser rechambered to 375 WBY with the old obsolete 0.75" freebore. It shoots 100 fps slower and groups twice the size of Winchester and CZ.



I also keep a featherweight 375 H&H (6.75 lbs bare) built with a Pre-64 M70 action, and would never consider rechambering or parting with that ... from my cold dead hands ...



Choice powders for the 300 to 350 grain bullets: H4350 and MRP or RL-22.



Hornady basic brass can be sized, trimmed and loaded for bear. It is heavier and capacity a few grains less than the Weatherby/Norma stuff with the headstamp. One could engrave the Hornady stuff with an engraving pen, in all that blank headstamp space.



2. Recoil is not an issue for me with any 375. You'll get used to it.



3. Not all 375 H&H rifle magazines will feed the 375 WBY well, but most will, and all can be made to do so with minimum fuss. The 375 WBY feeds and extracts very well in my three rifles.



However, all 375 WBY magazines will feed the 375 H&H very well, in my experience. Good in a pinch. The 375 H&H factory ammo fired in the 375 Wby chamber (of current .370" freebore) will only lose 100 to 125 fps. This will slow it down to super-lethality according to Doctari. And if your full power 375 Wby 300 grain load is sighted 1.5" high at 100 yards, the 300 grain 375 H&H factory load will be zeroed at 100 yards, in a good rifle.



Your 375 WBY handload pressures will be the same as the best 375 H&H pressures. Extraction is a non-issue.



4. The 375 WBY does make the 375 H&H look anemic. No moral deficiency issues there.



5. I started off killing Kodiak blacktails in 1987 with the 375 Wby. It was comforting to pack along on the hillsides of Kodiak, and to sleep with after a brown bear had come into camp to put his nose on my tent one moonless night.



All three of my 375 Wby "working rifles" are in the 9 to 9.5 pound range, bare, and that is as it should be.



The Whitworth is in a standard Brown Precision fiberglass stock (not the Kevlar-graphite featherweight mix).



The Winchester is a stainless-synthetic with "milk jug" stock that works just fine.



The CZ is factory walnut and blue, and the Lux stock is very gentle on my anatomy. Only snobs and the unsound of mind or body complain about the humpie.



If I could have only one .375 rifle, it would be a .375 Weatherby, and it would merrily digest any .375 H&H ammo available, delivering good accuracy and an expanded range of ballistics, on both the high end and low end.



The 375 WBY is also "more perfect" for the long monometal bullets than the 375 H&H. Times change. The nostalic codgers need to get with the program: 375 WBY.



But, please keep at least one 375 H&H for old times sake. And to keep Ray happy, get at least one 404 Jeffery to fondle in the retirement home. I've got one in the works now, and ought to be shooting .423" bullets next week.

Hey Ray,
I've got a Sako in 416 Rem, and a CZ in 416 Rigby. I love them both. Last winter I used the Rigby to shoot some American Buffalo that took off from Matt Bowens ranch up near Jordan Valley and went through the Owyhees over toward Grandview. That was a bit of a wreck.
My foot is nailed to the floor over here in Owyhee county with my medical practice so I'm just messing around with the 375's for something to do until I can get a partner so I can take off for a while and do some hunting on the other side of the big puddle. The next time I decide to be the only doctor in a very large and very poor county will some one just slap me. Actually I love my job, I just wish someone else could love it for me one month every summer.
And please don't yell at me for having McMillan stocks on the 416's. The Sako stock split after ~ 150 rounds and Beretta/Sako hasn't replaced it after 2 years. If you don't mind I'll stop by the next time I'm over by Twin Falls and you can give me a few pointers on bedding the CZ in it's wood stock. Hell, if I can sell some of these chickens my patients keep giving me I will buy one of your bolt mounted peep sights if you come down a hair on the price .
The bottom line is I got the rifle and spare barrel for free so I have to do something with it.
You know; blonds, redheads, brunettes, sweet, mean, ugly, pretty - got to try 'em all God willing and your wanker don't fall off.
JCN

Been forgetting to take your lithium, John?
Ahem ...

OK Mates,
It's settled.
1. I keep using the crap out of my 416 Rem and CZ 416 Rigby.
2. I make the new Sako into a 375 H&H, and turn a CZ into a 375 Weatherby for Rockchucks in the summer and coyotes in the winter.
3. I use the .223 on ground squirrels.
4. I go over to Filer, ID and jaw jack with Ray on a .404 Jeffrey project for next year.
5. Everyone who helped educate me today is welcome to come to Parma, ID any weekend in the fall for Chukar hunting in the Owyhees or Duck hunting on the Snake river. If you bring a 28 gauge we will hunt California Valley Quail in the sage brush. I'll supply the shells.

Any answer that involves buying more guns and then reloading for them is the right answer.

Thank you all, and good night.
JCN

They don't make enough Lithium, and they don't make it strong enough, or so I've been told.
JCN

RIP... why do you keep such a low profile these days, busy?

AMEN, Brother Ray!

Well , I just started shooting my re chambered Winchester(from H&H to Weatherby) a couple of days ago . I have to say I like it and think the Weatherby is the better reloader's cartridge . I am more interested in the lighter bullets , and found it easy to reach the 2900+ fps area with 270 gr Hornadays and 260 gr ballistic tips using RL19 and H4350 . This means you can do the top end H&H loads without leaning on the +P much at all . Extraction and feeding are nice and slick . I really think the Weatherby case with its rounded shoulders will feed good in most any sound rifle .



Recoil and muzzle blast seemed identical , for me at least, to hot H&H loads . The Weatherby factory loads with the 300 gr Noslers are the real deal.....2783 fps with the chrono set a good 25 ft from the gun......24 inch barrel.........should figure out to an honest 2800 fps at the muzzle , this in 50 degree weather . Easy extraction and no pressure signs on these factory loads..........

John,
Better try some saltpeter.

Smallfry,
I am still here, reading and learning a lot from AR.COM. Life is cruel: not enough time or money to go to Africa yearly. I am working toward a second trip. Hey, if I posted anymore than I do now, I would simply bore myself to death, and you too.

SD,
I don't doubt your velocities, some rifles are faster than others, but the advertized Weatherby factory 300 grain Nosler Partition velocity is 2800 fps in a 26" barrel, I thought.

I was very pleased to get 2734 fps from it in a 24" barrel at 50 degrees F. That would be very close to 2800 fps in a 26" barrel. Chronograph to muzzle distance was 15 feet for me.

Most 375 H&H 300 grain factory loads fall below 2500 fps at the muzzle. The fastest factory load I ever found was the Remington 300 grain Swift. That clocked about 2530 fps. There were some reports of excessive pressure experiences from some lots of that load, IIRC.

I have not tried any of the "Heavy Magnum" or "High Energy" loads from Hornady or Federal in 375 H&H, nor do I care to, except out of curiosity as to how they actually chronograph. Heavily compressed loads of mystery powder that I cannot duplicate at home just leaves me cold.

Now, back to laying low.

Maybe Ray has warped my mind around a 404 Jeffery Rimless Nitro Express, as the best for a one rifle safari.

(Forgive me King 416 Rigby, Queen 375 H&H, and Prince 416 Remington.)

But, if the rifle gets there and the ammo doesn't, 404 Jeffery ammo will be harder to find than the 375 H&H factory loads that would be right on target at 100 yards in my 375 WBY.

Trajectory tables for Plan A and Plan B with the 375 WBY ammo or 375 H&H ammo in a pinch:

Plan A kills like Saeed's 375/404 with the proper premium bullets.

Plan B kills like Doctari recommends as best, especially with those old factory loads that need to be slowed down to keep the bullets from disintegrating on the critter's hide.

JCN,

Quote:

---

OK Mates,
It's settled.
1. I keep using the crap out of my 416 Rem and CZ 416 Rigby.
2. I make the new Sako into a 375 H&H, and turn a CZ into a 375 Weatherby for Rockchucks in the summer and coyotes in the winter.
3. I use the .223 on ground squirrels.
4. I go over to Filer, ID and jaw jack with Ray on a .404 Jeffrey project for next year.
5. Everyone who helped educate me today is welcome to come to Parma, ID any weekend in the fall for Chukar hunting in the Owyhees or Duck hunting on the Snake river. If you bring a 28 gauge we will hunt California Valley Quail in the sage brush. I'll supply the shells.

---

I think you got it covered. Just would like to add that I disagree with Atkinson(sorry but I couldn't let it go) about it costing more to shoot the Weatherby. If you reload a few added grains of powder doesn't cost that much. Also I have been shooting Weatherby Magnums for over 40 years and never had a feeding problem. That is shooting Weatherby calibers from .224 to .375 so don't have any fear about a feeding problem. Have fun with your project. Lawdog

John,
You are a sick man. It takes one to know one, eh?

This post deserves more attention

Monometal bullets make the concept much more sensible than it would have been even ten years ago. Kind of an over the counter version of Saeed's .375/404.
JCN

HERE HERE!
HEAR HEAR!

OK Lawdog, I'll give you that, but I was sure the Weatherby brass was way more expensive than 375 H&H brass, but hey thats no big deal, was just stating my case for conversation anyway!!

The Weatherby brass IS way more costly at about a buck and a half apiece . But I doubt many .375W shooters are actually using Weatherby brand brass for most of their shooting . The Weatherby brass does have room for a couple more grains of powder than fireformed WW brass . If going on a trip where you needed properly stamped brass , though , picking up several boxes with the right markings would likely be a very small part of your costs......

My partner has a Sako in .375 WBY. that he will sell with the dies and Wby. brass. H&H brass will fire form to this.

Gun shoots fine, stock wood is average, whole gun is in 99-100% condition. 30mm rings included. Shoots 3/4" groups. We didn't experiment with it too much and it may do better. We were mostly working with our .416 Rugers for the hunt. Took several animals in Tanzania and a black bear in Maine with it.

He just has never warmed up to it and wants to go to a Winchester or Ruger.
The price will be right for the taker. I currently have the gun and dies in North Carolina. Mike is in Alabama.

I will have to go to our shop to inventory the amount of brass that he has or to get any other information that you may like to have.

Sam
eclemmons@hotmail.com

Mike Foster, M.D.
mafoster@comcast.net
Beeper: (251) 417-0081

.

Big Sam,
PM

Alf,
Sorry I was blowing you so much s**t on the 404 issue. Fast monometals in a .375 bore isn't about utility. It may just be me, but it seems that a lot of americans like things louder and faster.

When technology marches forward humans adapt to use the technology. Whether one views that as good or bad depends more on ones viewpoint than on the intrinsic worth or lack thereof of the technology.

I for one am heartened that some of the most radical looking monometal solids come from RSA, and that large US manufacturers won't adopt the design because US bullet buyers are too conservative in their taste in projectile profiles.

The rifles, caliber, bullets, and velocities that you cherish were also once considered too small, too fast, and of radical construction.

The two main reasons that the guns you cherish shoot at the speeds that they do is that the projectiles of the day couldn't withstand higher velocities and the propellants couldn't deliver those velocities at safe pressures.

Where do you draw the line? Do you keep your 400 grain 404 Jeffrey to 2150 fps, wouldn't cordite be a more correct propellant? Should you use bullets of circa 1920 construction? I don't know, but I've read that the soft points often overexpanded and failled, and that the jacketed solids often riveted and failed.

Would black powder and lead with percusion caps, or even flint be more correct?

What day in history do we want to place in amber and declare to be the correct day? I don't know.
JCN

Excellent philosophic discussion with historical perspective there, Charlie.

Alf, you better go tell Saeed that he has it all wrong with his .375/404. Please break the news to him gently.
No wait a bit. Saeed has proved many times over that he has it all right.

Question? Is Saeed also a pervert because he likes stainless and synthetic in his rifles. By golly, he doesn't even put iron sights on his rifles! Most of the time,just uses a 2.5X-8X Leupold most of the time.

Mere hundreds of Buffalo and other game have fallen reliably to Saeed's rifle. Who doesn't get it here?

.

JCN: I really like the 375 WBY and I AM one of those who thinks WBY calibers are cool, I have four of them myself, but not a 375 WBY. Ray is right that a buffalo won't really care about the extra 150 fps, but where the true value of the cartridge lies is in it's ability to shoot quite a bit flatter than it's H&H counterpart. I have fired them and the recoil difference is RIGHT THERE. You can shoot H&Hs in a 375, but I've always wondered about the accuracy of such a feat. Oh yeah, I've blasted a few commie ground hogs in our place in PA (they had red hair too!) with my 416 Rigby. Chec six, jorge

Jorge,
Some .375 Weatherby rifles will shoot the standard .375 H&H ammo with sub MOA accuracy for 3 shots. Best results are had by using the shorter throated .375 Weatherby, NOT the old long freebore version, which may have given the .375 Weatherby a bad rap.

The point of impact may change by only 1.5" to 3" downward, depending on the rifle, assuming both are 300 grain bullet loads, zeroed at 100 yards for the .375 Weatherby full power load.

I base these claims on actual experience with the .375 Weatherby, and I used to fly 4 hours per month on H-1's and C-130's. Though my flying was done as if I were a sack of potatoes. Check six.

Well If I ever get around to building a "ground up" custom rifle, the 375 WBY is certainly one of the "finalists." I happen to enjoy Craig Boddington's works and it's one of his favorite calibers. jorge