416 Ruger case expanded to 458, shown between a 458 Lott and a 458 Win mag

The 458 Win mag fits and feeds perfectly in my 375 Ruger Guide Gun

Discuss among yourselves

quote:

The 458 Win mag fits and feeds perfectly in my 375 Ruger Guide Gun

How does that work feeding a 458 caliber into a 375 caliber? I thought 458 caliber was larger bore diameter then 375 Caliber.

Here is a Whitworth Mk X .458/.416 Ruger:




I had to do it because I found the factory .458 WIN chamber to be "ringed."
A .395 Ruger reamer with a .458 pilot cleaned that up, and a .458 Lott reamer lengthened the neck, without touching the .458 WIN throat.
Brass length 2.580", Ruger style.



The Ruger Hawkeye box would be better, it is wider and longer, slightly, than the Whitworth box that allows only 2+1 capacity.
It would require a drop floorplate for 3+1 or a complete M98 drop box from Sunnyhill.

Fire-formed, plenty shoulder:





Rip ...

Did Rusty do the work on your Whitworth? PM sent

700xcr, I just stuck a 458 Win mag round in the 375 Ruger Guide Gun magazine and partially closed the bolt to see if it would properly pick up and feed
the 458 round, which it did. The bolt goes forward
about halfway and stops.

Just a feeding/ function check about the feasibility of having a Ruger Guide Gun
re-barreled in 458 Win Mag. The 458 Win mag rounds
stack and feed just fine from both sides of the magazine.

Ballistics?

Yep, Rusty McGee.
Ballistics?
To be found buried in the .458 WIN thread:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...43/m/4821083332/p/73





Yes, I prefer the .458 WIN LongCOL over the .458 WIN Ruger aka .458/.416 Ruger.
In the M77 MkII or Hawkeye "LongCOL" of 3.395" is outstanding with the GSC HV 400-grainer.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Here is a Whitworth Mk X .458/.416 Ruger:




I had to do it because I found the factory .458 WIN chamber to be "ringed."
A .395 Ruger reamer with a .458 pilot cleaned that up, and a .458 Lott reamer lengthened the neck, without touching the .458 WIN throat.
Brass length 2.580", Ruger style.



The Ruger Hawkeye box would be better, it is wider and longer, slightly, than the Whitworth box that allows only 2+1 capacity.
It would require a drop floorplate for 3+1 or a complete M98 drop box from Sunnyhill.

Fire-formed, plenty shoulder:





Rip ...

That's a beauty! The .458 Ruger is an interesting cartridge too. How does the velocity compare to the .458 Win? I'd imagine you get an extra 50 fps or so.

quote:

Originally posted by srshooter:
That's a beauty! The .458 Ruger is an interesting cartridge too. How does the velocity compare to the .458 Win? I'd imagine you get an extra 50 fps or so.

Thanks.
That is about the size of it, it is a .458 Lott Like Jack Built but a little fatter and shorter, in a 3.340" COL.
It will do more than a SAAMI .458 Lott even as the .458/.416 Ruger "ShortCOL."
Just like a .458 WIN LongCOL with all working at same pressure limits.
.458 WinRuger ShortCOL or .458 WIN LongCOL, both are about the same at top end loads, better than a SAAMI-restricted .458 Lott.

Another 500 bucks gets the Mauser bottom metal from Sunny Hill needed for a .458 WinRuger,
and then it would need a new stock or look like one of these with belly hanging out:



Above is Duane Wiebe's .500 Jeffery Bottom Metal for Mauser M98, this one 3-down and barely +3.5" COL also available for 4-down, etc.
It is not such a tight squeeze, better, as 3-down with the .500 Bateleur (.510/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved 2.7"),
a non-rebated "me too" inspired by the .500 Jeffery Denial Movement.

Rip ...

Will it do 2,150 with a 500grain bullet?

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Will it do 2,150 with a 500grain bullet?

at what barrel length?

That is a beautiful cartridge. To the nay sayers about the 375 Ruger case, the beauty of the cartridge was the level of power/combustion space it brought to masses.

Prior to the 375 Ruger case one had to use either the long HH case, the long and fat Rigby Case, or the fat and long Jeffery or RUM case. The 375 Ruger cartridge per caliber brought those cartridge performs in a 30/06 length case without the magazine capacity or cartridge stretching issues of the belt, or grit and length of the other cases.

Ruger did us average joes a disservice by not being more aggressive with the case. Nosler beat them to the punch. Given the years Ruger had the 375 Case on the market before Nosler, Ruger’s failure is really a head scratcher.

They may not have sold a lot of 48 Ripugers, but they would have sold a lot of 30, 7mm, 6.5, 338s on full length 375 Ruger case.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
That is a beautiful cartridge. To the nay sayers about the 375 Ruger case, the beauty of the cartridge was the level of power/combustion space it brought to masses.

Prior to the 375 Ruger case one had to use either the long HH case, the long and fat Rigby Case, or the fat and long Jeffery or RUM case. The 375 Ruger cartridge per caliber brought those cartridge performs in a 30/06 length case without the magazine capacity or cartridge stretching issues of the belt, or grit and length of the other cases.

Ruger did us average joes a disservice by not being more aggressive with the case. Nosler beat them to the punch. Given the years Ruger had the 375 Case on the market before Nosler, Ruger’s failure is really a head scratcher.

They may not have sold a lot of 458 Ripugers, but they would have sold a lot of 30, 7mm, 6.5, 338s on full length 375 Ruger case.

Well, that's history. Ruger missed a great chance by short-changing the with the RCM's. The RCM's were not bad rounds, they just didn't do anything better. Basically, the full Ruger case could have put Weatherby capacity into standard 3.4" actions of 27, 28, 30 and 33 bore. But they didn't.

Meanwhile, I'm just waiting for the right configuration of a 416 Ruger. I'd like a stainless, laminate stock and either 22" or 20" barrel. I've never used a muzzle-break so that would not be a deal maker or breaker. But my main reason for the rifle would be carrying something lighter than my CZ 416 Rigby, with reduced recoil from 6000ft#, and with reasonable all-around loads for hunting 0-300 yards. Just possibly a 458 Ruger would be considered, but the 416 Ruger already has the necessary ballistics. I like to hunt at 2600fps and up and the 416Ruger should do that with a 350TTSX (5250ft#), even better with a 330gnGSC.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustavo:

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Will it do 2,150 with a 500grain bullet?

at what barrel length?

If a SAAMI-restricted .458 WIN (3.340" COL and only 60,000 psi) with 24" barrel is capable of 2200 fps with a cup&core 500-grain RNSP,
and the .458 WINRuger has a case capacity greater than the .458 WIN and the same throat ...

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
That is a beautiful cartridge. To the nay sayers about the 375 Ruger case, the beauty of the cartridge was the level of power/combustion space it brought to masses.

Prior to the 375 Ruger case one had to use either the long HH case, the long and fat Rigby Case, or the fat and long Jeffery or RUM case. The 375 Ruger cartridge per caliber brought those cartridge performs in a 30/06 length case without the magazine capacity or cartridge stretching issues of the belt, or grit and length of the other cases.

Ruger did us average joes a disservice by not being more aggressive with the case. Nosler beat them to the punch. Given the years Ruger had the 375 Case on the market before Nosler, Ruger’s failure is really a head scratcher.

They may not have sold a lot of 48 Ripugers, but they would have sold a lot of 30, 7mm, 6.5, 338s on full length 375 Ruger case.

Yep, ditto 416Tanzan.

At least Hornady has come late to the game with the .300 PRC, a full length .308/.375 Ruger with a "Creedmoor-style" throat.
The US military has even contracted for some sniper rifles so chambered.
Nosler had no more gumption than to use RUM-based cases on the 26 and 28 Noslers, etc.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

At least Hornady has come late to the game with the .300 PRC, a full length .308/.375 Ruger with a "Creedmoor-style" throat.
The US military has even contracted for some sniper rifles so chambered.

Rip ...

Yep, they bought a bunch of Barrett MRAD so chambered, still wondering why the military switched over the .300 Norma to this new one...good meals at fancy restaurants?

My point is, they were all singing the praises of the ill-fated Norma round and all of a sudden the new kid on the block is the "perfect" sniping round? It's amazing what good business practices can do.

Business as usual, Barrett MRAD .300 PRC:



It is a lovely cartridge.
But it does not fit into a .30-06-length action, and it is not a mudder!

Brass max length: 2.580"
COL max: 3.700"
COL min: 3.575"
30-degree shoulder semi-angle (60* cone angle)
Brass neck length: 0.3076"

Chamber minimum length is only 0.0074" longer than brass max length.

Chamber minimum Neck-2 (case mouth) diameter is 0.342", brass Neck-2 maximum diameter is 0.341", only 0.001" for brass release of bullet.
0.002" difference at Neck-1 (shoulder) diameters:
brass max 0.341", chamber min 0.343".

Brass shoulder diameter max: 0.5150" at 2.1217" from breech face.
Chamber shoulder diameter min: 0.5160" at 2.1168" from breech face.
Head space with interference.

Base diameter brass max: 0.5320" @ 0.2000" from breech face.
Base diameter chamber min: 0.5330" @ 0.2000" from breech face.

45-degree chamfer at Neck-2 of chamber tapers into the Parallel-Sided-Free-bore.
PSFB diameter is 0.3088" minimum.
PSFB length is 0.2328".
Leade semi-angle is 1*30'00".
Distance from breech face to bore diameter at end of leade is 3.0050".

Tight chamber (all over) and Weatherby-esque, Creedmoorish throat.
Meant for accuracy in a long action like for a .416 Rigby.

Rip ...

quote:

It is a lovely cartridge.
But it does not fit into a .30-06-length action

Actually, normal hunting bullets will fit in a 3.4" action. It is only the bullets with a .8" nose and longer that will need single feeding or the long actions.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

It is a lovely cartridge.
But it does not fit into a .30-06-length action

Actually, normal hunting bullets will fit in a 3.4" action. It is only the bullets with a .8" nose and longer that will need single feeding or the long actions.

The best illustration of that is the .300 PRC with 2.580" case versus the .300 WinMag with 2.650" case length:



Both could be used in either '06-length or Rigby-length actions depending on the bullets used and the throating,
the .300 PRC being throated for VLD-long bullets.
But certainly Bubba can go to town with a standard-length M98 .300 PRC,
or better yet, a Ruger Hawkeye.
I sure will!

I can single-load "LongCOL" off the top of the box full of "ShortCOL" loads.
The .300 PRC would be the perfect mate to the .458 WinRuger in a standard M98.
A mixed marriage of .300 PRC Ruger Hawkeye (3-down box) with the .458 WinRuger Mark X (2-down without drop box).
Both are best of all in LongCOL loadings like in a CZ 550 Magnum.

Rip ...

The factory rifles in .300 PRC don't all look like the Barrett MRAD,
this might be a Remington M700 custom job or some-such:



https://www.shootingtimes.com/...ersus-300-prc/330107

quote:

Originally posted by 376 steyr:
Will it do 2,150 with a 500grain bullet?

376 steyr,

If, in the .458 WinRuger Whitworth Mark X with 23-3/4" barrel,
the 500-grain Hornady DGX crimped on cannelure at 3.345" COL with 2.560"-long, non-fire-formed brass (necked up .416 Ruger brass from Hornady),
and
74.0 grains of AA-2230 with GM215M/F215 primer
at
72 degrees F
gave
5-yard instrumental velocity of 2219 fps, trouble free and accurate, st. dev of 6 fps for three shots,
corrected to MV, add 14 fps, for BC = 0.295:

2233 fps

Use -20 fps per inch of barrel shortening below 23.75" down to 20" barrel.
Use +10 fps per inch of barrel lengthening above 23.75" up to 28" barrel for rough figurin'.

E.g., at 3.345" COL and 72*F:
20" .458 WinRuger MV = 2158 fps
24" .458 WinRuger MV = 2236 fps
28" .458 WinRuger MV = 2276 fps

So, please do tell, do you think it will do 2150 fps with a 500-grainer in the barrel length you prefer?

Rip

Hey, I held a .30 Newton in hands today, an original rifle belonging to xausa.
The .300 PRC was invented over a century ago
by Charles Newton.

Rip ...

A few of the original Newton rifles owned by xausa are shown below.
Not shown here is one of the later 1922 models with the 2 triggers facing in opposite directions,
reversed one at front of trigger guard to set the rear trigger.



There is a .30 Newton there, released upon the world about 1913, 105-years before the so-similar .300 PRC,
which Hornady worked on for 10 years before releasing it in 2018.
They should have consulted Charles Newton by seance.

sambarman338 got to fondle some Newton rifles as xausa chaperoned:



sambarman338 was like a pig in slop with old scopes and mounts for dessert:



Me too:



I had too brief a time to gawk adequately.
Like trying to do the NRA museum for lunch.

IIRC the scope mount on the PRESENT ARMS! Newton rifle above
is a Redfield "Senior" SR type which was the forerunner of the Redfield "Junior" JR type mount.

Rip ...

Here is a re-hash regarding the .458 WinRuger as previously shown on the never-ending .458 WIN thread:



By use of just 9 bullets I settled on the 400-grain GSC HV load for the .458 WinRuger ShortCOL.
BC of that bullet at about 2500 fps is 0.372.
5-yard correction to MV is +12 fps.

Three fouling shots with 80.0 grains of AA-2230
had a standard deviation of 15 fps.
2475 fps 5-yard instrumental
2487 fps MV
Group not measured, shot #1 was a "flyer."

The next three shots with 81.0 grains of AA-2230 had a standard deviation of only 3 fps: BEST LOAD
2489 fps 5-yard instrumental
2501 fps MV
0.68 MOA

The final three shots with 82.0 grains of AA-2230
had a standard deviation of 5 fps.
2515 fps 5-yard instrumental
2527 fps MV
0.74 MOA

"Busy" target images, 25-yard target range, only place at public range where I was able to chronograph that day was on the pistol range, by special dispensation. Too many other yayhoos hogging the rifle range.
Otherwise it is a long drive to a private range:







I am imagining a Mauser dropbox protruding below the stock belly of the Whitworth .458 WinRuger aka the .45 NEWTON.



Rip ...

400 grains at 2500fps is pretty comfortable.

Nice.

Makes me wonder why I would want to send a 330gn GSC at 2650 fps. Not too bad either, but it doesn't have a .45" diameter.

Interesting read. Wonder how long before people start scrounging up the rugers and making them 458 rugers. Does it have enough shoulder to headspace?