Not sure if this is the right place for this question - if not - please guide me.

I've been experimenting with 10 bore (gauge) slugs
in the 1-3/4 ounce to 2-1/4 ounce weight range.

Does anyone have any experience with such loading? Got any info to share?

If the double has the regular thickness shot barrels; IE relatively thin

barrels compared to slug barrels, we only went 12-1300 with 800gr soft foster slugs.

For 1050gr only go about 1000 fps. Have to be careful so as not

to split the shot barrels. Our Zabala double 10ga had shot barrels, and the muzzle

measured only .960" OD..... To run heavy slug loads at decent speed

got to be about 1.075" like our 10ga NEF turkey and goose

guns with bull barrels we shoot slugs in..ED

Might want to do some Google research on English bore rifles. 10ga was a pretty popular rifle bore, thought to be a medium bore before the turn of the century.

You might also want to post this in the double rifle forum as well.

Here is one quick result: http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...owflat&Number=290811

Here is another: http://www.doublegunshop.com/f...owflat&Number=298577

FWIW, Cal Pappas is a member here and regularly posts on the double rifle forum.

JPK

Hello hubel458,

I have a Pedro Gorosabel 10ga double. It weighs 11 pounds-11 oz empty. (12 pounds-2 oz loaded) Barrels measure .935 at the muzzle with a .099 wall thickness)

I had a custom slug mold made as pictured.







Casts a 750g & a 900g slug. I've been loading HS6 and getting sbout 1150 with the 750g slug .. and about 1050 with the 900g.

still working out the bugs, but accuracy seems to be about 6" at 50 yds so far

quote:

still working out the bugs, but accuracy seems to be about 6" at 50 yds so far

Is there any noticeable difference in accuracy between the two weights?
Is that a combined r/l group or groups of each barrel?

Well, here's the whole story of this project. I contacted a fellow about making me a 600 Nitro Express from a shotgun. He suggested I buy a Spanish Laurona 10ga as the donor weapon. He said these were very good quality and he has used them before. I did as he suggested, post haste, and bought the first one I saw advertised on gun Broker. Price was very reasonable.

When it arrived, it turns out that this Laurona 10ga was one that was actually made by Pedro Gorosabel back in 1957. It was imported by Frank Clark Jr. - Cheyenne Wyoming. It was written-up in the 1958 GUNS magazine and extolled as one of the finest 10ga doubles ever tested.

It has an Anson & Deely pattern Box Lock on a Heavily Reinforced Frame with Chopper Lump Double Under Lugs. It has a Greener Cross Bolt with a Dolls Head Extension and a Scotts 3rd Bite, and Purdey Side Clips. It also has Vented Firing Pins and a Hinged Front Trigger. WOW!

Although made in 1957, it is in 99% condition with near 100% case color and blueing. Only the Ventilated Red Recoil Pad shows its age, being hard and brittle.

Its so darn nice with so many whistles and bells, that I decided the see how it does with slugs before making up my mind if I want to convert it to a 600NE.

I soon discovered that there is not much info out there about 10 ga slug reloading, and I've been progressing very cautiously. It seems to shoot both barrels to the same point of aim at 50yds giving a cluster of holes in a 6" bull. No noticable right/left separation, but I'm only using the big brass bead down the rib for aiming. If things look promising, I'll see if I can find someone to install express sights on this for better aiming.

I'm off to the the range now, to test another 10 shells - I only bought 10 brass hulls because I wasn't sure how this was going to go. I'll be keeping detailed notes of this outing and will update what I discover.

OK .... back from the range.

Both loads were same amount of HS6 powder, with one 1/8" thick over-powder card, and four 1/2" thick fiber wads, and one 1/8" thick under-slug card. No crimp, only slight friction fit of slug in brass case. Fired from elbow rest and gun on boat cushion.

Load 1 = 750g slug
Ave Muz Vel = 1260 (corrected)
actual measured velocities = 1218, 1223, 1238, 1239, 1251

4 of 5 shots = 5-1/2" @ 50 yds (one flyer)

Load 2 = 900g slug
Ave Muz Vel = 1205 (corrected)
actual measured velocities = 1184, 1193, 1166, 1165, 1184

4 of 5 shots = 6-1/2" @ 50yds (one flyer)

Overlapping both targets = 7 of 10 shots into 7" (all these shots were 6" high & 4" left of bull)

Load 1 was 45-1/2 pounds calculated recoil - Load 2 was 55-1/2 pounds calculated recoil. Both loads were pretty stout, but tollerable.

So, now I'm going to concentrate on slug quality / uniformity and loading technique / uniformity. I've also purchased 10 more 10ga cases.

As a side note .. I do not use any lube on the slugs - they are pure lead only. This made a total of 22 shots since the gun was last cleaned, and there was absolutely no sign of any leading. I'm thinking that all the paper wadding might be wiping the bore clean between shots so that there is no lead build-up.

As Spock would say: "Fascinating." Looking forward to your further adventures Buckstix.

You won't get leading in our experience at those speeeds.

That ocurred for us between 1500 and 2500. Over 2500

to infinity no leading. The fiber wads help lube/clean the bore.

Those slugs look great, I'd buy a bunch, if you wanted to cast

some extras in 750gr.Ed

Well, that's good news about the leading.


I never sold any slugs before .... what would something like these sell for?

These are dimensioned to be a slip-fit inside a brass case. With the velocities and recoil I'm having, I have noticed minimal bullet "set-forth" in the unfired barrel. (perhaps 1/16") Although velocities are prettty uniform, one of my next tests will be to apply a ring of sodium silicate (water glass) to the front edge of the case mouth to glue the slugs in place. I'll see if that improves velocity uniformity and accuracy.

Here is a drawing of my slug - are you sure these are something you can use?

The drawing at the right shows my loading with the cards and wads.

I see you made them just for brass case, which is bigger on the
inside than plastic which are set up for the nominal .775" 10ga bore.
Plastic cases have sides over twice as thick as brass,

And that is neat idea as driving bands fit brass, yet will swage down easy
to the .775" size making a centered snug fit for giving the best groups.

It is best to set them down in a little and glue them in.

I'll pay you 70 cents each, shipping included for a hundred,
all go in a small flat rate box. 750gr. You can PM if interested.Ed

Thanks hubel458,

Yes, my design was to fit the brass cases, and have them swage down easily in a full choke. So far, they seem to squirt out my .735 bores very nicely.

I don't know how the hollow base acts during ignition, and plan to do some testing with "foam" inside the slugs to see if that makes a difference.

They seem to be barely stable, giving round holes when they pass through the thin paper target. But if they strike an area of the target that has the plywood backer, they "yaw" over and make an oval hole.

As far as selling goes, next time I cast I'll see what kind of time & material is required.

Do you know anyone that does pressure testing? I've been going by "seat-of-the-pants" with these, but have no real idea of the exact pressures I might be getting from my loads, and I would like to find out some way.

You can call Tom Armbrust at Ballistic Research

and see if he can test 10ga.

I know he does 12ga plastic. 815-385-0037 is

last number I have for him. If you are shooting and

those thin cases extract easy your about 8-10,000 psi.

Real safe level. but don't go higher with thin barrels.Ed

Thank you hubel458,

I got his name yesterday from a friend. Same phone number. I plan to contact him today.

I've been using HS6 because what little data I've seen, shows it to be on the lower end of the pressure levels for heavy 10 ga loads. Do you have any suggestions for other powder that fit that same definition?

Thanks for all your help, its really appreciated.

Great thread here..

Somebody ought to make rifled screw-in chokes for 10bore(.775")shotguns.

I have used Winchester plastic hulls to start with for my 10bore rifle. My caliber is .793".
These bullets seems to squeeze just tightly, but with no visible bulge.

Use about 2gr more of Blue Dot or Longshot and you are safe..

Our larger amounts of 4759 powder loads, will get much more speed,
but muzzle pressure is to much for thin barrels.ED

I have always been interested in 10 gauge slugs. I have several shotguns but have only shot the Federal slugs and they do preform well on deer but I would love a hard cast flat nose for heavy game. I do have a double that I bought in the 70's marked Elibar Spain. \I bought it already 'sawed off' for the princely sum of $100. I use it now with black powder shot shells for Cowboy Action Shooting. I use a SP-10 from the Custom Shop (20 inch barrel with rifle sights and screw in choke tubes) for slug work.

Thank you hubel458,

I'll test some bluedot on my next outing, perhaps friday.

I talked with Tom Armbrust yesterday, and he will be testing some of my 10ga brass loads for pressure.

Bad news is, he has to drill a small hole in the brass cases for testing, so I'll have to sacrifice a couple of cases for him to do his magic. My brass cases cost about $15 each, so that sucks.

Good news is I found out that I met him last year when I was set up at a local gun show. We talked for quite some time about double rifles, and 8-bores, and such. I didn't know who he was at the time, just another very friendly fellow shooter whos name I had long forgotten. When he mentioned his meeting me at the show, I recalled his visit. Small World!

Thanks again for the help, I'll keep you posted.

Buckeye, that's a very purposeful tool you have there.
Buckstix, are you getting your cases from Rocky Mountain Arms?

Hello Bill/Oregon,

No, I'm getting my cases from Track of the Wolf. They are 2-7/8" long drawn brass with a Parker headstamp. Very thin brass with an ID of .815" very much the same as vintage brass. This brass required special components because of the thin walls.

Buffalo Arms also sells 10 ga brass that is 2-7/8" long, but it is turned brass from Rocky Mountain and has an ID of .775". These are about $2 each more expensive but they can be used with conventional 10 ga components.

Hello Hubel458,

I got a preliminary report from Tom yesterday. My 1-7/8oz slug loads were at 8,500 psi. (mild) - and my 2-1/8oz slug loade were at 11,500 psi. (max)

That was testing only 1 each of the loads. He will be loading several more of each and forwarding the results sometime next week.

Apparently I'm getting a good gas seal with my 8ga nitro cards, and I can likely interpret some existing data for various future tests.

So far my groups ar not very satisfactory. Not sure if its the slugs, the loads, or my sights.

Can you suggest anyone to install express sights on a SxS shotgun?

There is a ramp front sight at Gunparts

That goes on with a screw, might work front end rib, if bottom flattened.

Part number --633660-- nickel plated steel==about 4 bucks.

Yes you got to get good sights to really test accuracy.

A good sight for the back is the Williams fire sight from Gunparts

if you can find a way to mount it .# 1365420 ....Ed