20"?
21"?
22"?
23"?
24"?

Does the Lott need a long barrel to reach optimal velocity, or would the 'handiness' of a shorter barrel be better?

Intended game would be pachyderms.

George

GeorgeS,<br /><br />I don't like a short barrel on any rifle and have never found one of 24 inches to be the least bit of a problem.<br /><br />My .458 Lott has a heavy contoured 24" barrel and weighs 11.5 pounds, but is perfectly balanced and so seems to handle like a carbine.<br /><br />I'm six feet even and, shall we say, over 200 lbs., and will admit that a smaller person might feel differently than I do with good reason. But if you're big enough, a gun like mine should be okay. It holds steady as a rock and doesn't kick too much. I'll admit it gets a little heavy on a long stalk, but it's nothing I haven't been able to handle so far.<br /><br />I have never pushed the velocity envelope--I'm happy with the honest 2,300 fps I get with my Lott (87 gr. of VV540; BeLL case; Fed. 215 primer; and 500 gr. Woodleigh). This load produces a Quickload calculated 48K psi. More I don't need.<br /><br />I defer to others with shorter barrels to tell us how much velocity they can achieve in their rifles. Velocity isn't my motivation for liking the longer barrel, though. I just like the weight of it and the steady, solid feel--it's right for me.

Thanks, mrlexma.

My current 'boomer' (the one in the photo below) is a 24"-barreled M-70 .470 Capstick, and at 6' 4", 215lbs., it's not too long or heavy (10.75lbs. empty, w/o scope).

George

My previous 458 lott had a light contour 21 1/2" barrel, that was backbored to .475" for 1 1/2" w/ 10 1/4" ports. I imagine the backboring and porting must have effectively shortened the barrel to some extent. That said, 87 gr of RL 15 would push a 500 gr hornady soft 2270-2280 fps. The chamber had a looong throat, so might not be compatable with all Lotts. The point of all that is, you don't need a long tube to make the lott sling lead.

I also agree that balance and stability of the rifle is more important then how easy it is to carry through the bush. I'd be happy with a Lott between 22 and 25 inches, so long as it balanced well. Depending on what action I choose, my replacemen lott using a Ruger #1 takeoff will come out 22-24".

22 to 24... i generaly don't like longer barrels

jeffe

George,
With the Hornady factory ammo the 22" Montana Rifleman barrel we talked about did achive 2300 fps, the factory claimed velocity. There is no harm in going with a longer barrel if it fits you and you might get a little more velocity but 22" seems to be all you need.
Jason

The difference in velocity is probably minor between a 20" tube and a 24 tube". I used to like a long and heavy barrel to obtain maximum velocities and to dampen recoil but nowadays I perfer to have a rifle that is well balanced in my hands be it at 20" or whatever. A 22" tube with a #5 profile will probably be fine choice for a 45 big bore caliber rifle. Thanks.

George,

Although I don't have a 458 Lott (YET! ), I would have it 22". That's the barrel length I opted for my .375 H&H,.....it may be in my head but it just seems 'handier'. I usually prefer shorter, carbine lenghth, rifles.

[ 10-02-2003, 07:13: Message edited by: TXPO ]

I have opted to leave my cz .458 lott at 25", My .416 and .375 are also this length and besides all feeling the same the length seems to hang there for off hand shots.

Hey GeorgeS,

I suspect a .458 Lott will take care of business no matter how short or long the barrel is. The important this what you are comfortable with.

I, like mrlexma, do not like short barrels. I have a custom 35 Whelen with a 27" barrel and a custom 8mm-06 with a 29" barrel. I'm having a .405 Win. made on a P14 action and it will have a 28" barrel. I use peep sights and like the longer sighting radius. I don't shoot beyond and I believe that I am much quicker acquiring the target with a peep sight than with a scope. But that's me.

Whatever you are comfortable with will, in all likelihood, be your best choice.

Good shooting,

Smoker

I like the balance and handling qualities of a 26" barrel on any big bore..they shoot better offhand for me...but barrel length is a personal thing and at most you will only loose a 100 FPS at 20"s I suspect..short barrels are light in front and are handy to pach, but they just don't hang for me and I see that they have little to offer in real hunting situations...

Short for brush, depends on where the interfering brush is? unfortunatly it can be 20 inches up front as well as 26, so that old arguement is void....

24 is a good compromise if one likes compromising. I get the hook for a short carbine about every 10 years and make one up, then sell it, because it just didn't come up right.

Bottom line is it is a personal choice.

I prefer 26" for the following reasons:

1. keeps muzzle blast away from my head and ears

2. keeps muzzle rise down a bit

3. not quite as loud because more powder burns within the barrel rather than outside

4. handles just fine in the brush

5. If I decide it is too long, I can lop it off later.

George,

My practice is to start at 600 mm (23.6"), and then adjust so that the rifle handles well. I have two .458 Lott rifles in construction now, but I am not sure yet where they are going to end up.

I have rifles with barrels from 19" to 26", and they each seem to work for the particular application.

jim

I would opt for 24 inches. It is a good compromise length.

In the '60s and '70s, I owned quite a lot of English big bore magazine rifles (as well as doubles and singles). For whatever reasons, few had barrels shorter than 25" and some had barrels of 28". Most had seen significant service in India or Africa, where the bush can be quite thick.

Have also had large bore FN's, Model 70 carbines, and one P-14 (in .450 Ackley Mag), with barrels as short as 20".

I like them all, but think I probably liked the 25" barrels best.

If it shoots, and you like it, it's "just right".

AC

The first PH (Craigh Haman) I hunted with had the first 458 Lott I ever saw. It was a Win pre 64 action with a 20" barrel that must have been 1" in diameter. It was Heavy but right between your hands. He liked it a lot. I was impressed with it's balance and it pointed like a shotgun. It weighed 11# and had a steel tube 2X Weaver.

i believe i read somewhere, an old gun digest maybe, that mr. lott developed this cartrige to operate with a 22 inch barrel. his goal was to get it to do what winchester advertised the 458 would do ,but never accomplished.

Funny thing is I love the look of short barrels, it makes the rifles look "tough" but I reckon the extra length of say my heavy rifles with there 25" barrels seems to help with shooting stuff offhand, it "hangs there" as others have said before.

My 2 cents worth for free: Anything between 22" and 26" is fine. If you just can't decide, make it 24" if Imperially inclined or 600 mm if metric.

Ruger went with 23" on their M77 RSM, and Dakota seems to use 23" barrels on their African M76, IIRC.

Edit: Oops make that 24" as the standard at Dakota. It is $150 extra for a 23" barrel.

[ 10-05-2003, 06:59: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

George - I shoot a 23.5" 450 ackley which is very similar to the Lott - with WW748, this rifle will achieve up to 2425 FPS with the 500 grain Hornady. This barrel length is very adequate for the ackley, and is not a burden to carry. "Feel" and balance being most important, a very individual thing - KMule

I have built and sold about 4 or 5 458 Lotts..Most of them like 83 grs. of 4320 for about 2350 FPS, all 26" barrels...However one of the liked 84 and another liked 85grs of 4320...the 85 gr. load in a 26" barrel in that particular barrel blew me off the bench, it really cranked up the chronograph and the the load was max but good in that particular rifle...I won't quote the velocity but it was a surprise and the brass lasted many loadings...

I always start at 82 grs. of 4320 and work up to an extractor mark, sticky bolt, the usual signs that show up then back off two grains..

Apparantly the Lott dotes on longer barrels, but it has enough reserve that who cares....2200 is plenty for a 45 cal. 500 gr. bullet anywhere, any time...

My Lott is 10lbs 15oz with a 24" barrel and a mercury recoil reducer in the butt stock. It balances perfectly for me. If I had ape like arms for my size I would probably have a 26" barrel.

Ray is quite a bit taller than me and his balance point on the forearm is further out. Thus, the longer barrel points better for him. I didn't see if he posted his height, but I would put him about 6'3".

My best load is 83gr of H4895. This was a tip from D'Arcy Echols. I'm going to experiment with VVN this fall. My load zips a 500gr. pill at 2320fps in this rifle. It's plenty!

Hey Longbob,

I am 5'81/2" tall. Or I was about 40 years ago. My rifles all have 26" or longer barrels. I've never had a bit of trouble shooting those because of the length of my arms.

However, I carry a shooting stick - not because of any problem with the barrel length but because a person is seldom as good off hand as they are with some type of support. Without the stick I am adequate but with the stick I really am much better.

If you've never tried a shooting stick - by all means try one. Mine is a long piece of oak I found in the woods about 35 years ago. It's not heavy and comes in handy when trying to negotiate big rocks and up steep hills (a big stick helps short legs).

Just a suggestion - good shooting,

Smoker*

There are pleanty of reasons to have 26" barrels on a bolt action rifle, but I can't think of one off hand! There is a big difference between a 26" barrel on a double rifle, or a single shot,and a bolt rifle! The key, in my view, is ballance, not length! A 20" barrel that is left just heavy enough to ballance properly "hangs" just as well as a thinner 26" barrel! The velocity gained by the extra 6" of barrel is only noticable to the owner, and the gunsmith, not the Buffalo! If it will make over 2150 fps with a 480 gr or larger quality bullet it will do what is required of it!

The long barrels are a hold over from black powder days, and with modern powders are not needed, for performance! Where double rifles are concerened, if there is more than 26" of barrel one should look carefully, to see it is not Black powder proofed! Most Nitro, and those made after the WW I were made with 26", rather than the older 28" barrels from the last decade of the 19th century, or shortly after the turn.

When you get down to building your rifle, the length of the barrel is a personal one, and there is no wrong length, after 20", and not over 26"! It is simply a matter of what "YOU" want! They all work well if they fit you,and you can place those big pills where they will do the most good!

Smoker,

Have you noticed callouses on your knuckles? Just kidding!!

My 458 Lott is from the Wincester Custom Shop and has a 24" barrel. It balances like my Citori Sporting Clays shotgun. My 460 Weatherby has a 26" barrel plus the muzzle break. It balances like holding a baseball bat from the small end. This, of course, is for my stature.

I agree with you about the shooting sticks, but that isn't always an option. Here is a link to the story about my buffalo hunt. Not only did off hand shooting play an important role, but flawless feeding was a big player.

http://www.nookhill.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=003549

[ 10-09-2003, 03:06: Message edited by: Longbob ]

Double tap.

[ 10-09-2003, 03:03: Message edited by: Longbob ]

I think long barreled rifles balance better than short barreled ones.

Hey Longbob,

You said, "Not only did off hand shooting play an important role, but flawless feeding was a big player."

Looks to me like good marksmanship played the most important roll. Congratulations on what appears to be a very rewarding hunt.

I'm sorry about the balance of your Weatherby. From your pictures your stature is fine; It sounds like the Weatherby isn't.

Sometimes it is necessary to add weight here and there or to take weight off here and there to accomplish a good balance. Most of that depends on the likes and dislikes of the owner. I guarantee you that if you find the right gunsmith he/she will be able to make that Weatherby feel like a gymnast on a balance beam.

It is difficult to get an off the shelf rifle that will suit each shooter. If the individual is really interested in a well balanced rifle and can afford the services of a gunsmith - then the only problem that remains is finding the right gunsmith.

Again, congratulations on a very successful hunt,

Smoker*

Smoker,

Thank you. It was an unforgettable hunt. I'm ready to go back!

I agree with 500 gr the longer barrels do balance better.

Optimum bbl length for the 458 Lott shooting 500 gr bullets at 2300 fps is 20.57 inches from an internal ballistics perspective. Longer won't gain much velocity, but balance and stability may dictate otherwise. I have a suspicion that a longer barrel will do a lot to make small changes in your hold in the field have a smaller influence on point of impact. Not many folks talk about variations in hold and impact point, but if you experiment at the range you will see what I mean. Big bores spend a long time ejecting a heavy bullet, and it is twisting the rifle in the opposite direction from the rifling...the muzzle winds up in different places as the bullet is ejected based on how you hold the rifle and where you put pressure. A long barrel minimizes this.