looking for info. i looked this question up in the find section with no luck.some gun owners are turning 458 win mag into 458 lotts.what steps does one take?hope some one can shed some light.

First, check the box length of your magazine. Is it a short box, only the 458 length? Or is it the longer .375 H&H length?
You do not detail your action type or manufacture.
On a Remington 700 bolt with a magnun bolt face, the magazine is already long enough and all you have to do is rechamber the barrel. The rechamber is a very simple job.
On a Ruger Model 77, 458 Win. Mag., the action (magazine box and bolt length) is too short for the longer 458 Lott.
So, what action do you have as a donor?
Sincerely,

My first question to anyone wanting to turn a 458WM into a Lott is Why and What do you expect to gain?
Just wanting one, of course, is enough reason.

With the newer powders I'm starting to call my 458 WM a 458 Lott improved.

you have a point Phil, but anything you can do to a 458WM can add the same amount of giddyup to the Lott as well.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Depending on your barrel length, you'll realistically see 100-200fps from a Lott over a .458win mag with a 500 gr bullet. The longer the barrel the more advantage you'll see. Converting a .458 win mag to a Lott is easy but only if you really know how. Talk is cheap. Some guns are way more amenable than others and some are a mistake to even contemplate. -Rob

My understanding was that Lott developed the .458 Lott because he ended up as Elephant nail polish, and wanted to avoid it in the future. The problem being, is that unless you've fired a .458 Lott (alot), recoil recovery and follow-up shots could be a deterrent.

If I'm going after something that might either convert me to paste board or protein by products. I want to be able to have a quick second chance to cancel the process.

I once fired a friend's custom built .510 Wells. Chances of getting off a quick second shot were pretty low.

DB if you already have a 458 Win ......Unless you know that you need more stomp ..I wouldn,t think it worth the effort and expense .......I got my Lott as an experiment and ended up likeing the rifle so much I haven,t and probably won,t convert it to another cartridge ..............The Lott kicks more . and mine torques much more than any Win Mag I ever fired .....

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
you have a point Phil, but anything you can do to a 458WM can add the same amount of giddyup to the Lott as well.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

+1... and you know the old racers saying: "There's no replacement for displacement"

From the norma website:

The 458 Lott was introduced by Jack Lott in 1971. After having been injured by a buffalo in Mozambique, Lott wanted more than a 458 Winchester Magnum. To improve the 458 WM the case was made 3/10 inch longer for more case capacity. 458 WM cartridges can be used in place of 458 Lott standard, and 458 Lott is the favorite cartridge used in the rifles of many African Professional Hunters

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
DB if you already have a 458 Win ......Unless you know that you need more stomp ..I wouldn,t think it worth the effort and expense .......I got my Lott as an experiment and ended up likeing the rifle so much I haven,t and probably won,t convert it to another cartridge ..............The Lott kicks more . and mine torques much more than any Win Mag I ever fired .....

I had a custom Ruger short action flat bolt in .458 x 2" that I didn't need, but never had a .458 WM and don't want or need one of them either.

My .375 H&H or .300 WM will settle any arguments that I will ever run into.

you can always load it DOWN! to 458 WM velocities.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Over the years the story of Jack and his development of the Lott has taken on a life of it's own. By Jack's own account all he ever wanted was a 500gr bullet @ 2150fps and since some of the old Win 458 ammo was starting to show deterioration due to powder compression and heat, he designed the longer case to get the 2150 he wanted. With today's powders the standard 458 Win easily reaches this.
There is no doubt that the Lott is a fine round and if more power turns you on and you feel you need it then the 458 Lott is probably the best way to get it.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Over the years the story of Jack and his development of the Lott has taken on a life of it's own. By Jack's own account all he ever wanted was a 500gr bullet @ 2150fps and since some of the old Win 458 ammo was starting to show deterioration due to powder compression and heat, he designed the longer case to get the 2150 he wanted. With today's powders the standard 458 Win easily reaches this.
There is no doubt that the Lott is a fine round and if more power turns you on and you feel you need it then the 458 Lott is probably the best way to get it.

This is so true. If it had been 2008 instead of 1971, all Lott would have had to do was hit the loading bench and reach for AA2230 or one of a couple of different powders which will get the 500 grainers to 2150fps.

BTW, it was really Lott's lousy shot got him stomped and not the 458wm he was shooting. ~2050fps is plenty sufficient with the 500's for buff in my experience, but it doesn't hurt to have ~2150fps and it is important for elephants, imo.

JPK

the primary advantage of the Lott in 2008; the ability to shoot the new 550gr bullets at 2200fps or a bit more. That negates any advantage the 470 Capstick offered, unless you just want one. Me personally; I have a CZ in 450 Dakota that I can throttle down to match either.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Shooting the 550's is a real advantage the Lott enjoys. It just doesn't work for the 458wm.

But the benefit is restricted to those who elephant hunt, imo. A 500gr solid at 2145fps is plenty sufficient for eles, a 550gr Woodleigh at 2150fps or so would only be better. And so report those who have used them.

The extra performance is wasted on buff, in my opinion.

JPK

Anything the Lott can do the .450 Ackley can do better. The Watt even better.-Rob

I prefer the Lott because I can get 2100fps with a 500 grain bullet in a 22 inch barrel at lower chamber pressures than the 458WM. Lower chamber pressures being the selling point for me.
Getting back to Sam's original question, magazine length is the only issue you might have to address but as Virginia creeper addressed earlier in the thread, you did not tell us what kind of rife-action you have in the 458WM or are you still searching for a donor?

2,400 fps with 450 grain bullets (SD > .300) is a pretty good reason for liking the Lott.

Good points all, RGB; but there is the issue of spending close to twenty-grand (minimum) to go to Africa and having them not allow you to bring ammunition that does not have the correct head stamp in with you. For me, not being able to use one of my big rifles; that would take about half the fun out of it.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
But the benefit is restricted to those who elephant hunt, imo. A 500gr solid at 2145fps is plenty sufficient for eles, a 550gr Woodleigh at 2150fps or so would only be better. And so report those who have used them.
JPK

Just as a point of interest, my short barreled 50 Alaskan levergun shot 460 grain solids at 1950 fps and had complete penetration on both head and body shots for tuskless ele. Now, I'm a firm believer that more power is good and even necessary but I still found my experience interesting.

Having said that...I'm moving up in power for next time. That was a fun experiment but that's really all it was.

Yukon.

Penetration is critical, and your combo provided sufficient penetration for your tuskless. Your combo also knocked the ele out, which is a great bonus. Your combo's margin for error is too thin for bulls, I suspect, both for penetration and "knock down" effect. The difference in head size is tremendous and not entirely realizable until you are standing next to a dead bull. Body size difference is significant, but the head size difference is truly amazing.

465H&H who has used the 470 and the 465 as well as the Lott, describes the performance of the 550's at 2150fps to be a step above the others.

I have no complaints with 500gr .458" Woodleighs at 2145fps on bulls, and acheived complete pass throughs on a couple of side brain shots that were for insurance. We didn't have the time to dig for the bullets shot front on and there was no exit on heart/lung shots, didn't have time to dig for these either, though one was found while the meat was recovered, (found where?.). I think the 450 North Forks would work better though.

I think that I will begin to look for a 476WR. I am a fan of double rifles and the 476WR is a flanged cartridge that shoots a 520gr Woodleigh at 2175fps nominal.

JPK

Agreed on all accounts. I'm more on a tuskless budget but I still want a bigger hammer. I love the 50's and would really like a Jeffery or a Nitro but will probably go to a 458 with GS Custom bullets.

(edited to say) I had a RSM Lott with me on that trip but the gun never left the lead tracker's shoulder. I wanted to give it to the appy PH but ended up selling it when I got home. It was too heavy for a Lott.

I never owned a 458 win mag I do own the lott tho!!

(edited to say) I had a RSM Lott with me on that trip but the gun never left the lead tracker's shoulder. I wanted to give it to the appy PH but ended up selling it when I got home. It was too heavy for a Lott.[/QUOTE]

Yukon, how much did that RSM weigh?

It was over 10 lbs. and closer to 11. I have seen the weight vary a fair amount due to wood on these guns. I can tell you that I have yet to see one weigh 9.75 per Ruger!

The thread was stared by
SAM184.
He is a new member so please....
And the thread was.....

Posted 15 March 2008 21:07
looking for info. i looked this question up in the find section with no luck.some gun owners are turning 458 win mag into 458 lotts.what steps does one take?hope some one can shed some light.

So to the following...
458Win
Idaho Sharpshooter
Robgunbuilder
D B Cooper
gumboot458
Collins
JPK
dirklawyer
mrlexma
yukon delta
jro45

Remembering that the thread contained the question....
"turning 458 win mag into 458 lotts.what steps does one take?"

Please detail how you have advised SAM184.
All those who do not detail their answers will be visited by WALTER at their home email address and GEORGES, moderator, will be removing randomly half of your posts.
Sincerely,

QUOTE]Originally posted by sam184:
looking for info. I looked this question up in the find section with no luck.some gun owners are turning 458 win mag into 458 lotts.what steps does one take?hope some one can shed some light.[/QUOTE]

First, welcome to the forum sam184. I need to know the make and model of your rifle before I can make an accurate recommendation. The basic steps are if you have a rifle with a long enough magazine box all you have to do is ream the chamber. There are reamers made just for this converershion. I would have a competent gunsmith check the feeding.
Bill

sam184,

A search argument of Lott conversion will turn up several threads on this forum.

Try it on the 'Gunsmithing' forum as well.

At a minimum, your barrel will have to re-chambered; the gun may also need a new magazine box, follower, one or more crossbolts, and a softer recoil pad.

George

A CZ in 458WM will work easily. 375 magazine box, follower and spring completes the task the 458 Lott reamer began. Ditto for a Whitworth 458WM. I did a Whitworth myself two years ago, and have seen five or six my gunsmith has done since 2005. All worked like factory. I have seen two RSMs converted, IIRC the same parts swap and rechambering job.

I have a Browning stainless A-Bolt Stalker in 375 that is going to be bored, rerifled, and chambered for the Lott. I have already stuffed three Lott rounds in the box and gotten a fourth to feed into the chamber.

On task enough to satisfy...?

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Virginia Creeper:
The thread was stared by
SAM184.
He is a new member so please....
And the thread was.....

Posted 15 March 2008 21:07
looking for info. i looked this question up in the find section with no luck.some gun owners are turning 458 win mag into 458 lotts.what steps does one take?hope some one can shed some light.

So to the following...
458Win
Idaho Sharpshooter
Robgunbuilder
D B Cooper
gumboot458
Collins
JPK
dirklawyer
mrlexma
yukon delta
jro45

Remembering that the thread contained the question....
"turning 458 win mag into 458 lotts.what steps does one take?"

Please detail how you have advised SAM184.
All those who do not detail their answers will be visited by WALTER at their home email address and GEORGES, moderator, will be removing randomly half of your posts.
Sincerely,

The 11 guys you just gave shit too have between them 20,163 post as of this one at 11:52pm EDT.

You've got 45.

If we didn't go off topic there wouldn't be much to post about. It'd be like the gunsmithing forum.

JPK

Don't I remember something about having to lengthen the bolt travel, maybe on a M70? by cutting into the bolt stop, or something.
And sure, we ought to first try and answer the question. And then get to the argueing.

what JPK said +1. I am also more than a little curious how somebody with 45 posts expects to direct Walter and/or any of the moderators's activities here. It appears that you average a post a month, and are homeless; hardly credentials to support a contentious posting. I think I had about 400 posts before I started the hammer and tongs program with anybody.

Whatever floats your boat...

regards,

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Questioning why or offering to clarify mis-quoted history is inappropriate on this forum ?

After owning both the Lott and 458WM,I've come to the conclusion that with 500 grainers the 458WM has pressure problems starting at 2100 and the Lott from 2200.If I want to shoot at 2150 with peace of mind I would go with the Lott.If you don't believe me,then check your primer pockets after testing by inserting an ufired primer into the pockets of the fired cases.

One other thing to consider as to order of improvement of rifle. If you are going to have back up iron sights it is going to involve not just reaming it out to Lott but also re-clocking the barrel so as the iron sights are in true, so there might be a bit of reaming, a bit of facing off, and a bit of threading and shoulder cutting on the barrel as well, possibly more than one cycle to dial it in perfectly. It's possible to ream it perfectly so the clocking isn't a worry but the odds of success aren't real high. Having iron sights a half a degree off true it terribly annoying (I've owned guns 9I fixed) I bought where they'd been left that way because people just used the scopes anyway). Depending on luck and what you started with it could be pretty easy or a bit of extra work. I don't like DG rifles without good irons on them besides a low power wide field scope.

tom

Mine is a Lott No.1 because the price was right and I'd rather have the bigger case. Costs more for brass though and all my N American loadings aren't any better than factory WM loadings as to energy because it's more pleasant to shoot that way with no brake if I'm plinking. Most of my hunting is in Texas so unless I'm going to Africa there isn't much even worthy of a WM.

"Most of my hunting is in Texas so unless I'm going to Africa there isn't much even worthy of a WM."
The pigs Tom the pigs are alwas worthey.
Why are you re clocking the barrel?
Good grief I agree with JPK.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
Good grief I agree with JPK.
Bill

Oh crap, what have I done wrong?

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cooley:
"Most of my hunting is in Texas so unless I'm going to Africa there isn't much even worthy of a WM."
The pigs Tom the pigs are alwas worthey.
Why are you re clocking the barrel?
Good grief I agree with JPK.
Bill

If you rechamber a barrel and every time you do it you come up with where the iron sights are still on as far as the horizontal with perfect headpsacing and freebore, I guess you get a prize. The prize I got is your comment because it should go in HUMOR.

Going from one similar chambered round to another in the exact same barrel and rifle with a reamer and crossed fingers may or may not yield results you like. Cross your fingers if it makes you happy. I'll bet on a good chance of more fiddling than you planned on before you are done and it's done properly.

Tangentially related to the horrid contender work people turn out and spot on on ALL barrel chambering work.

Cry me a river of stupid if it makes you happy.

"Any fool can buy a reamer and poke it at a bore." Then they can post about it on AR while arguing about fractions of a grain in powder charges....

If you use a conversion reamer then you don't have to take the barrel off thus negating sight alignment.

You can get .450 Ackley headstamped brass from a-square. Been to Africa 6 times and brought handloads and the Ackley went twice. No one ever even looked at it except in the US airport to say WOW. What you gonna use this for? They liked the answer too. In Africa should this ever be questioned, I was prepared to flash US $20 bills till the problem went away. -Rob