This may be a rehash, but I'd welcome a new perspective.
I started a Google Search today on various .458's.
This piqued my interest:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp

edited to add:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/050100.asp

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/reviews2.asp

Since I already own a Marlin 1895, am I an Official Member of 'We Band of .45-70'ers', or is the pursuit of a CZ 550 American Safari still the best alternative?

Two Word's

Bullet ... Design ..

Martin,

Is that your hand and bullet?
Is it the equal or better than the Garrett?
Will it work in the Marlin 1895 that I have?

I'm not trying to stir up $hit this time, I'm trying to understand the differences between the different .45 caliber cartridges and the rifles they're shot from.
I found the Garrett site interesting and informative and wonder if that platform and ammo are a viable alternative to the Big Bore bolt-action rifles.
In other words, is there really that much of a difference in the killing ability?

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:
Martin,

Is that your hand and bullet?
Is it the equal or better than the Garrett?
Will it work in the Marlin 1895 that I have?

I'm not trying to stir up $hit this time, I'm trying to understand the differences between the different .45 caliber cartridges and the rifles they're shot from.
I found the Garrett site interesting and informative and wonder if that platform and ammo are a viable alternative to the Big Bore bolt-action rifles.
In other words, is there really that much of a difference in the killing ability?

First is it my hand Yes and this is my hand


And this is some of my Handy Work



Woodleigh .700 Diameter 1000 grain on the far left and a PA 1000 grain .700 Diameter in the middle next to a small stack of 1000 grain .700 Diameter PA's

------------Next question -------------

Is your 1895 Marlin a G or GS or a Cowboy
the longer the barrel the more mute of a point it becomes.. If your barrels 24 inchs or longer then it really is a mute point in your 45/70
please take time and read this

Pile Driver

Those same loads will work on any of your
Cast bullets of the same weight
and diameter ..
Year's and i do mean years ago we took a
460 weatherby built on a enfield action
and a 458 win mag built on a Mark 5 type action
and a brand new marlin 45/70 and shot repeted times at the base of a fallen tree up its middle .. We used my .458 bullet's and also used some of barns bullet becouse at the time that was about all there were ..
the point of this is that while the 460's bullet did travel a bit father up the tree trunk the 458's and 45/70s were about the same

... Now for the kicker ... the hole the 458 win mag bullet made showed far more signs of distrution around it/the hole .more crushed wood fibers more cell damage the 460's on the other hand showed almost none
the 45/70's bullet was about the same as the 458's

All this jargon is just smoke and mirrors
the point is that at close quarters the 45/70 will do just the same thing if loaded up to modern load spec's .. barrel length is the kicker though a 25 inch barrel on a 458 win mag
like the one on my kids bed ( mine )


And a 25 inch barrel on a Marlin ( which thay dont make ) would be about 200 FPS slower
when firing the same weight of bullet namely the 525 grain ..

So .. you have to ask your self ..Do I thank its enough .


Martin

I chose the standard 1895 RIFLE with the 22" bbl., and it looks like it gives a 'whopping' 50+fps or so over the 18.5" bbl., which at the time was being made with 'ports'...
It appears that the advantage of the longer bbl. is the added sight radius over velocity. Almost MOOT, but still an advantage.
The 'ports' of the shorter bbl. virtually assure that the point won't be MUTE

I read what you posted and watched the video.
Here's a comment from the Garrett Q&A section:

"Q. Why can’t I shoot the 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo in guns other than the Marlin rifle?
A. Our 540-grain bullet has an extremely blunt nose, which results in greater than normal diameter very close to the meplat (forward end) of the bullet. Unfortunately, this keeps the 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo from chambering in most 45-70 rifles.
Only the Marlin can chamber our super blunt 540-grainer. "

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:
I chose the standard 1895 RIFLE with the 22" bbl., and it looks like it gives a 'whopping' 50+fps or so over the 18.5" bbl., which at the time was being made with 'ports'...
It appears that the advantage of the longer bbl. is the added sight radius over velocity. Almost MOOT, but still an advantage.
The 'ports' of the shorter bbl. virtually assure that the point won't be MUTE

I read what you posted and watched the video.
Here's a comment from the Garrett Q&A section:

"Q. Why can’t I shoot the 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo in guns other than the Marlin rifle?
A. Our 540-grain bullet has an extremely blunt nose, which results in greater than normal diameter very close to the meplat (forward end) of the bullet. Unfortunately, this keeps the 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo from chambering in most 45-70 rifles.
Only the Marlin can chamber our super blunt 540-grainer. "

Ya might have read it wrong ..?

Loading Data BTB-.45-[B]525gWLNGC "Pile-Driver" in .45-70 Govt.[/B]

H-4895 52.5 1820 FPS Velocity 22" Bbl.
H-4895 52.5 1752 FPS Velocity 20" Bbl.
And an 18 1/2 inch barrel would be only a little more then the 18 inch and thats about
in the 1680 or 1690's for FPS
---------------------

quote:

"Q. Why can’t I shoot the 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo in guns other than the Marlin rifle?
A. Our 540-grain bullet has an extremely blunt nose, which results in greater than normal diameter very close to the meplat (forward end) of the bullet. Unfortunately, this keeps the 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo from chambering in most 45-70 rifles.
Only the Marlin can chamber our super blunt 540-grainer. "

-------------------------
I take issue with what Randy said ..
the 45/70 540-grain Hammerhead Ammo
will load up in a Ruger Number 1 or Number 3

quote:

The 'ports' of the shorter bbl. virtually assure that the point won't be MUTE

And thats why i own a normal GS


All i did was as you can see is change my loop out for a larger one



I hunt the brush and have forever and with a buddy close by i didn't want to be blasting his ear drums out ..
Its bad enough as it is ..

Martin

I don't follow you on what part I read wrong...

The Ruger's are single-shot rifles, so there isn't a 'smooth feeding' problem there, right?

As for your rifle, NICE.
Which large-loop lever did you get? Mine is a DRC pistol-grip version.

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:
I don't follow you on what part I read wrong...

The Ruger's are single-shot rifles, so there isn't a 'smooth feeding' problem there, right?

As for your rifle, NICE.
Which large-loop lever did you get? Mine is a DRC pistol-grip version.

quote:

chose the standard 1895 RIFLE with the 22" bbl., and it looks like it gives a 'whopping' 50+fps or so over the 18.5" bbl.,

The diffrents between the 22 inch barrel and the 18 1/2 inch barrel is not 50 fps or a little over its more like 100 to 110 FPS and
with a custom made barrel of 26 inchs
on your marlin 1895 the speed for the same 525 grain bullet reachs around 1960 FPS thats about 23 fps slower then the 458 win mag with the same 525 grain bullet.. Hello

I got mine from a fellow on the marlin owners board that makes them i cant right off remmber his name but all you would need do is post up on the board to find him ...It fit the rifle
like a glove

Martin

( Wow! I misread that, alright! )

Does this make the .45-70 a 'dirty little secret' around here, or what?
Is that why there's a 'We Band of .45-70'ers'...?

I didn't think Garrett was putting anybody on, especially with the endorsements on the site.
In fact, when I bought my Ruger SuperRedhawk earlier this year, I got the .44 instead of the .454 largely based on the information at Garrett.
Now, I'm asking all these questions in an effort to decide if I can hold off on buying another BIG BORE RIFLE, because the one I have is entirely adequate...

I may still get a .454 Ruger and another, bigger bore bolt-action, but if I've got what I need now, that's a good thing!

If... you are looking for ..another big bore rifle.. then hold up.

I would like you to take some time and do a little ? research..

Look around your town or area for a BLR
Browning lever action rifle chambered in
one of the two 7 MM remington mag Or 300 Winchester mag.. theres a good reason for this maddness.. You may already know that the BLR is not a true lever action its more on the lines of a lever Operaited bolt action..
In 7mm remington mag or 300 win mag the action is very strong ... with me so far ...

Ok ..Now i want you just to think about this

50-110 winchester 525 Grain bullet 2400 FPS
In a BLR for around 1000.00 to 11 hundred dollers.. the rifle will run you ..(from a used one) about 450 dollers to (a new one ) 600.00
A new barrel about 289.00 <-in 510 diameter
thats it ..that and a we bit of bolt face work
and you have a hell of a big bore ..now do some more research and see what other big bores are pushing a 525 grain at ..Like the 505 Gibbs.

To convert a Winchester 1886 from 45/70 to 50-110 cost about 2500.00 to buy a used 50-110 costs about 5000.00 to 25.000 dollers
and the winchester cant take the pressures the Browning can ..

Its just a thought .. I did it and i am not sorry i did ..

Martin

Whoa! I'm not ready to go Hot Rod a BLR.

I'm just 'mathematically challenged' and wondered if the Garrett ammo will do the trick, regardless of it being launched from a Marlin.
If the projectile is of the same diameter/weight/velocity, then it seems it doesn't matter when said projectile enters a big animal.
The animal will perish as though it were shot with a bolt-action of a different cartridge.
That's what I'm trying to figure out.

The BLR project sounds like I'm having my leg pulled.
It sounds like a wild idea, and congratulations if you did make it work!
How'd you get the magazine to work correctly?

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:
Whoa! I'm not ready to go Hot Rod a BLR.

I'm just 'mathematically challenged' and wondered if the Garrett ammo will do the trick, regardless of it being launched from a Marlin.
If the projectile is of the same diameter/weight/velocity, then it seems it doesn't matter when said projectile enters a big animal.
The animal will perish as though it were shot with a bolt-action of a different cartridge.
That's what I'm trying to figure out.

The BLR project sounds like I'm having my leg pulled.
It sounds like a wild idea, and congratulations if you did make it work!
How'd you get the magazine to work correctly?

------------BLR-----Convertion---------------
No your not having your leg pulled in fact its the cheapest and easyest way to to go .

What?- magazine work .. Its a box clip feed action

In fact the easyest convertion on the BLR Lever
action rilfe is to rebarrel to .458 diameter and rechamber to 458 winchester mag from a 300 Winchester Mag .. no feed work no box work no nothing just rebarrel... like i said research it out yourself .. Its not a joke ..

Do you really want to buckle down and learn about this ? ..

I am PMing you a link ..

Martin

Sounds, good, Sir.
Thanks!