Well, I thought I had the problem with my new 404 Jeffery worked out. I shot 60 straight shots without a misfire. But I noticed than on the second and third loading of the brass, the primer pocket was so loose that I wasn't even sure that the primer was going to stay in.

So I got new brass and loaded it and got a new series of misfires. I figured that at least those that did fire would produce good fire-formed brass. Wrong! Got a new bunch of misfires from the fire-formed, neck-sized brass. Now I have lost all confidence in the ability of the rifle to even hunt non-dangerous game, much less something that would like to make me part of the African dust.

So Tuesday evening I have an appointment with Gary Bennett of Bennett's Custom Shop here in Lilburn, Georgia. This is who I should have gotten to do the job in the first place. We are going to take the barrel off and set it back a couple of threads and re-ream it. I'm letting Gary do it because I know that it will be done right and if there is a problem, he will be there to correct it.

Maybe there is a cheaper way to solve the problem through new dies and brass, but I don't think I should have to take the time to manufacture brass for an off-the-shelf available caliber like the 404. If I wanted to wildcat, I'd get something more interesting like the 577!

Wish me luck.

GA,
Best of luck. I think this is the best course, if the first smith won't fix it. Sorry you are going through this crap, as I think this stinks, that the first one didn't know better.

just my opinion, but if I had built it, I would stand behind up...

jeffe

Jeffeosso,

It's not that the first smith won't fix it. If I insisted, he would do it. It's that I don't want to get into a war with UPS with the gun going back and forth across 500 miles of highway. I would rather pay the money and get folks locally to do the work so that when I have a problem, I can drive over to their shop and say "fix it".

By the way, when it does shoot, it shoots good! I put ten shots in an inch and a half group yesterday with 91 grains of IMR 4831 and 400 grain Woodleigh solids! Chronoed at 2360 to 2415. I was breaking balloons at 200 yards off the shooting sticks.

Who is the gunsmith for this job? Why can't you have him correct the problem if there is really a problem with the rifle? I wonder if this is an ammo/brass problem or a headspace problem. There is problably a sure way to check this out but I don't know what to suggest. Good luck.

GAHunter it's that .012 expansion at the web that is letting the primer pocket expand like that; unless of course you're loading extremely hot , which I doubt. I bet dollars to donuts that the setup wasn't DEAD true when the chamber was cut.

GAHUNTER,

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Sometimes it is best to just walk away and do what you are doing. $150.00 and you know you are good to go. It is difficult to do on a "matter of principle" just as this situation has developed but you need to weigh that against your long term happiness.
Get the rifle fixed and be happy with it, look forward to Africa and put the rest behind you.

GA--D is right in that the sloppy base of the chamber can allow head expansion.Especially if brass is a little soft.Now after you get chamber redone, if brass still loosens pocket(which can happen if brass is soft) after 3-4
firings, find different brass.What brass were you using?Ed.

I hate it when that happens. I would suggest getting your hands on a set of head space gauges and then make a chamber cast before I would set the barrel back. Just an idea.

GAHUNTER,

Like I told you at Ga SCI during dinner, sell it to me and get rid of the headache . Seriously though, I may have a solution for you other than setting the barrel back. If you would like to try it please email me. I am 99% certain that it will work.

Jim

GA,
Hang in there! Frustrating, I know!

Use a

GAHUNTER

This is not funny. I have a friend in USA who had the same trouble with a rifle built by Hamilton Bowen and after a looong and hard struggle did he gotten the rifle rebarreled.

Have you been trying to confront the CLOWN that built you gun. If he gives a horses ass about his reputation he should fix such stuff with out haggeling
If you don't want to hire the original builder, why not ask him to pay for the fix up of your gun. This is the least I think you are entitled too. If the refuses, a kick in the nuts of the gun smith will be almost as satisfying

I hope you get the gun ready for Africa and get some fun time with it. Good luck
Cheers
/ JOHAN

GAHunter- I thought you said your chamber casts showed everything was dead-nuts with respect tio your 404 chamber. I am not surprised at all that your primer pockets are loosened with .012 case expansion at the case head. In fact I'm surprised the primers just don't fall out. I'd love to see those chamber casts. This is not OK, but some DGR reamers are purposely made for a certain degree of slop. Not this much though!
As I said before, use a pair of pliers and take a loaded case and squeeze the shoulder enough that the bolt closes on the round with a little bit of force. If this doesn't go boom, you have a bad firing pin or firing pin spring. The technique I just described produces a false shoulder and eliminates all headspacing considerations.
Finally, I'd simply face .200 off the barrel, re-cut the barrel shoulder and re- chamber with a good reamer. End of problem! There is nothing special about a 404 Jeffery. This is just basic gunsmithing.-Rob

Unfortunately, whacking a couple of tenths off a .404 barrel won't solve the problem. The .404 is a minimum taper case, I believe. The specs I just checked (on Clymer's website) show a base diameter of .546 and a shoulder diameter of .531. This is a total body taper of only .0149 inches from base to shoulder. If you assume you need to rechamber by the amount of unwanted expansion (or close to it), you would need to eliminate almost the entire old chamber. That is impossible with most barrel profiles, since the new shoulder would extend into what is now the thin barrel section. Also, the stock fit would be totally shot. If the problem is an oversized chamber, a new barrel will likely be the only cure. Setback and rechambering works well for headspace correction and for correcting highly tapered cartridges, but for "efficient" designs, you're SOL.

My guess is that the entire chamber isn't egg-shaped, just the chamber mouth and case head area area due to the "smith" attempting to correct a chamber ring by lapping it out a bit too aggressively! I've seen two similar cases. One by a relatively well know and highly respected gunsmith! If this is true, then wacking off the offending part and rechambering will work fine. If the barrel has a quarter rib, the timing will have to be done properly, but this isn't much of a problem. As for the stock, depending on the contour, a little glass bedding would make any gaps nearly unnoticeable if done properly, unless the gun was of such a high quality, that the wood to metal fit was of optimum importance. Personally, I'd rather it went Boom reliably!
If the entire chamber is egg shaped, then I agree the best thing to do is to go with a new barrel.We were previously told that the chamber was fine, but a .012 case head expansion and loose primer pockets with moderate loads sure doesn't convince me.-Rob

If only the head of the chamber is oversized, then yes you can save it. If the reamer was just offcenter, then I think you have a problem. The neck will always be close due to the pilot. If the shank of the reamer is off center when reaming, then in essense you will ream a cone shaped chamber, which will be too large. Whatever you do and whichever route you take, be sure the smith gets a good chamber cast and measures it carefully. This is the only way to make a relevent judgement as to what to do.

Rob,

No, we never got around to the chamber cast. The smiths who were going to do it were out of town and, in the mean time, I got the gun to shooting consistantly by backing off the dies and using fire-formed brass.

We will begin the process with a chamber cast to determain just where the problem lies. If the problem is too far forward for a simple re-reaming and needs a new barrel, it will definitely go back to Tennessee for the job.

GA,
I am goign back to my very first post on this. The smith mounted the canine on this one, and needs to fix it, as his first priority. .012 is RADICAL expansion.
My self, I would ring him up, ask him what he plans to do about it. It's his issue, and he should be given the chance to fizz'it. If he doesn't want to, have another barrel made up, AFTER two chamber casts, and send him a chamber cast, and, frankly, ask for the cost of the barrel, chamber, and whatever else is associated with it, back.

I wouldnt be an ass about it, until the third time I asked about it, but if you give him a chance to fix it, and he doesn't want any of the problem, then he should be professional enough to decide he also doesn't want any of the money related to the problem.

This is NOT an attempt to get a rifle for free, just to make it right.

Jeffe

and if what Jeffeosso recomends doesn't work threaten to take him to court on JUDGE JUDY! That should scare the shit out of him.

This is a serious matter but I just couldn't resist.

[ 03-05-2003, 01:13: Message edited by: D Humbarger ]

We have disscussed the chaimber in detail but one question I have not heard is firing pin protrusion and whether the action has had a aftermarket firing spring. (i think the chamber is not right) When I first started I did a 1917 enfeild that gave me fitts. It seems the spring was to big in dia. And drug on the machine marks in the bolt.I guess I am asking has all the variables been looked at as there could be other things that need adressed as well. Good luck

GAHUNTER,

I may be sticking my nose in where it is not wanted, but I still may have a solution to your problem without any barrel work. My 404 brass (Norma) measures .540 at the base. Remington 375 Ultramag brass measures .545 at the base. IF you use a tapered expander button in your full length sizing die to open the neck up to .423 you can form this brass into perfect 404 Jeffery brass in one pass(it even comes out 2.846" long compared to 2.868" for the Jeffery. The rim diameter is slightly smaller on the Ultramag brass (only .0075"), but it will function perfectly in a 404 rifle.

The only change you will need to make is to open the base of your resizing die to .545. Contact me for details on how to do this modification. CH4D dies tend to be on the minimum side in some of the British calibers, which is why I told Gary about what I suspected you were running into before he asked you what dies you were using. Do not attempt to size Ultramag brass until you have made this modification, as a split die is likely. For a quick check on whether this case will fit you rifle before modifying your die, trim an Ultramag case to 2"(just below shoulder length for a 404), and try chambering it. If you don't have access to Ultramag brass I will send you a case to try.

I ran a piece of 375 Ultramag brass about three quarters of the way into my RCBS 404 Jeffery die, and it started forming a perfect 404 neck and shoulder, so it will definitely work after opening the base of the die as mentioned above. This would have the added benefit of allowing you to use the cheaper and more readily available Ultramag brass. Of course the disadvantage would be that you would not have 404 headstamped brass, and you would not be able to use factory loaded ammo.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Jim

This is ridiculas, send him his barrel back along with a chamber cast, get the money for barrel, chambering etc returned and send the gun to a real gunsmith, not some local who works on 243's, give it to a big bore specialist....Send it to Jack Belk or Jim Brockman and have it re-barreled...