I was just wondering what the advantages of one over the other is. They appear to both produce the same velocities. The .416 rem. Mag. does it with a higher pressure and less powder. And yes, I'd guess that the 416 Rigby would be better suited for Africa because of the lower pressure, not as temperature sensitive. However, with todays "extreme" powders that effect is negated. And the Rigby has no belt, which would make it a more reliable feeder through the magazine. What else can you tell about the advantages/disadvantages of one over the other? Of all the .416 rounds out there, which would you consider the ultimate round?

-mnmark

I don't think that I will get to much complaint if I state that I think that the Rigby is the king of the .416's. The Remington comes from the factory pretty much maxed out in the velocity department while the cautious handloader can coax a good deal more from the Rigby due to the immense volume of the case. I myself do not do this but I'm just letting you know that it can be done. The Rigby doesn't give up much to the Weatherby. There are other .416's out there, Taylor, 10.57 Maverick, Hoffman, Rimmed, Dakota, and Meteor but none of these are real mainstream. If you feel that you have to have more velocity than the Rigby then go with the Weatherby, but if you don't then by all means get yourself a Rigby. King of the .416's

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JR

Rem's new ammo does not chrono at 2400 fps.

The real difference is nostalgia, hunting Africa with a piece of history. In reality a 400 gr bullet at 2400fps is the target for most in the category. Sure you can push it past that with the Rigby and others. However, why as the reason for the Rigby's success was 400 gr at 2400 fps. Most believe that any velocity beyond that point is wasted and only provides the shooter with more recoil.

There are several reasons for going with the 416 Remington and the biggest is the size and weight of the rifle. The big case of the Rigby requires a very large action. The 416 Remington in most actions will hold one or two more cartridges. A 416 Remington can be built on a slender Mauser 98 action and other reasonably prised actions. The main actions being used for the 416 Rigby are the Ruger and CZ 550. Both are great actions but large.

I will probably own a 416 Rigby some day but that is for my first reason, nostalgia.

Good Hunting
Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

And with Woodleigh's new 350-gr Weldcores out, the old Queen of Rifles can now so closely approach the Remington load that it nearly makes the newer version redundant in all catagories. Performance is matched by the Rigby, convenience and magazine capacity is matched by the .375 Holland. Federal, Ruger and now Woodleigh have really ganged up on Big Green. If I didn't dislike the company so intensely, I'd be sorry for them.

It is just too obvious. The 416 Rigby is king of the hill. The 416 Remington is OK.

Check out the chamber specifications of the Rigby. The throat has no freebore, just a leade of about 0.3". Just a bit of 416 Rigby trivia.
Maybe part of the reason they are so accurate.

They feed great. Just enough taper. Radical 45 degree shoulder angle, headspaces sharply and positively.

Load them hot and heavy, light and fast, or traditionally.

Anything the 416 Remington or Weatherby can do, the 416 Rigby can do better. The difference in action bulk and weight is insignificant, in a custom rifle, make it light or heavy as you like.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

RAB,

I couldn't agree with you more! The 416 Rem is however available in many push feed actions where the Rigby is not. That is for those who prefer the PF to the CRF.

Todd E

The answers are just as I thought, the .416 Rigby is still king of the hill. And when it's time, I will probably go that route. Thanks for the replies. Keep 'em comin', if ya' got 'em. Which rifle to get it in is another matter(custom, factory?).

-mnmark

Mnmark,

For those who hand load, the 416 Rigby is better than the Remington, no question about it.

It has a bigger case, and if you wish to for more velocity, you can get it.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

mnmark,

I like the Rigby because it's classic, it's available inexpensively in the CZ, it's low pressure, and I don't care about the size or weight of the action, since I don't want anything lighter than the CZ, anyway. I am particularly concerned about low pressure, since I shoot with the rifle on the wrong side of my face, where my good eye is.

If you have no desire to exceed 2400fps with a 400gr bullet, the Rem should be fine, and recoil a little less in the same weight rifle, since it would be burning less powder.
The cases and dies are also less expensive.

I think a lot of you are missing something for the sake of nostalgia and that is the 416 Remington action is much smaller and lighter than the bulky, heavy Rigby actions of any make.....

I like the 416 Rem because I can make a smaller neater, more user friendly rifle from a std or magnum action...and 2400 FPS is more than ample..

Same for the 404 if I need a little nostalgia and I do from time to time...

If I'm going to pack a 416 Rigby size gun around then you can bet it'll be a 505 Gibbs or something that hammers a bit better...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

[QUOTE]Originally posted by R. A. Berry:

"The difference in action bulk and weight is insignificant, in a custom rifle, make it light or heavy as you like".

Wrong. You'll be carrying 2 extra pounds of "nostalgia" with any oranges to oranges comparison in rifles of like capacity, when fully loaded. Not to mention the higher associated costs, should you elect to build the Rigby on any current action other than the "CZ" variety. Let's not even talk about ammunition cost differential.
Like I 've said here repeatedly, if one subcribes to the 400 grain / 2300+ formula that the Rigby mystique was built on, the Remington is a cost effective and worthy competitor.

Nick,
You are entitled to your opinion, but I do not share it. I think the weight difference is closer to 1 to 1.5 lbs., and I think your opinion of what is significant is not the same as mine.

My out of the box CZ 550 Magnum in 416 Rigby weighs all of 8.25 lbs. Field ready, it is very close to 9.75 lbs., under 10 lbs., scoped and loaded with 4 rounds. This is as light and handy as I want a 416 of any type.

This rifled is destined for some gunsmith slicking and a custom walnut stock, or maybe a McMillan...maybe I'll ask them to make the stock heavier than their standard express model, so the rifle doesn't blow away should a stiff wind get up about me.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

R.A.B.
That's what makes a horse race my friend!
When you get to be 54 you'll change your tune slightly.
Below is a South African outfit that makes a very nice and reasonably priced synthetic for
the "CZ" 602 and the new "CZ" 550. I think it goes for $179.00 + shipping. I can order one for you. Email me.

"ARMTEC"
DENNIS ENGELBRECHT
TEL 011-27-444-4464
FAX 444-911-846
CELL 82-968-6740

You guys and your "light and handy 416s"! Holy shit who wants a light 416? Every time the 416 rigby V. 416 rem argument comes up I have to read this crap. You all know if a 416 Hoffman can be built to 6.5lbs then the 416 rigby can be built to 8 or 8.5lbs easily. But this brings up the question, WHO WANTS TO SHOOT A 8lb 416?????

Sometimes the BS is hard to believe.

Sorry I just had to get that off my chest.
Jason

Put it back on ... 8 lbs. sounds good.

For the economy-minded, a Win M70 CRF in 416 rem with a decent looking stock is only $789 around here locally. It is better looking and has a better stock for recoil than the CZ550 which sells locally for about $675.

And 416 rem ammo is cheaper.

But the rigby will give more velocity at lower pressure in both factory and handloaded ammo.

I have no concern on the weight, its the bulk of the 416 Rigby that I abhore...The difference between the 28 ga. and `12 ga....
One points and the other doesn't...

If you like trim sleek guns ( heavy or light ) then the 416 Rem or 404 Jefferys is the best route..If that makes no difference then either will surfice..

If I have a bulky gun then I want a real gun, 500 Jefferys or 505 Gibbs not a dinky 416 of any kind...

I think at my age a couple of pounds may be making a difference, but I still want a 9 lb. gun and a 26" barrel and it must be TRIM AND SLIM AND POINTABLE.

The above is only my opinnion, and the 416 Rigby has made its place in the African scene, no doubt about that...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,
It's only bulbous around the magazine box. One grips fore and aft of that and it can be well balanced and shoot well despite having a beer gut. My hands are happy when gripping a 416 Rigby.

Nickudu,
I could always use another CZ 550 stock. I will e-mail you. Thanks.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

Interesting post Ray. I thought you were a big fan of the Brockmans Working Gun; size shape and stock configuration. Am I wrong? I got one on order and was wondering about this post. Looks slim sleek and pointable from the websight. Still I haven't held mine yet. Still in the works. Good hunting. "D"

Don't forget pressures. The 400 at 2400 fps out of the Remington is at 55,000+ psi, while the Rigby does the 2400 fps with a 400 at about 35,000 fps. That was one of the reasons for the giant case in the first place, to keep pressures low with the temperature sensitive Cordite powder.

DHunter,
I am a friend of Jim Brockman, but I don't see a conection there???? you know he makes other rifles too!! not a good point my friend..

I personally have built a number of 416 Rigbys for clients, that doesn't mean I prefer the big 416..

I don't like the bulky action and box and do not consider the pressure issue a part of the equasion in todays world, least we quit shooting all else in Africa that has 55,000 PSI...That abouts aliminates the rest of RA's guns I suspect, it sure would mine!

I know you guys love that Rigby, but it is not sacred ground in my book, it is merely a fine old warhorse that was never popular with anyone but a famous author and his PH...
Its popularity is now!! and thats fine and it does its intended job with aplomb...and I reiterate, if I'm packing that much bulk, I want more hammer...I can duplicate the Rigby within 50 FPS with a 404, end of story.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

With all the fuss about which .416 here is a pot-stirring option:

Any old .458 Winchester Mag will kick 400 grainers out in the 2400 FPS neighbor hood. It is plenty, at least from my 10 lb gun. Components are more plentiful, cheaper and still make the game go down.

Pick your favorite 400 grain bullet, RL 7 or 15 and get to work on the bench.

Fish. If you have read this forum for some time, you know that the 458 Win Mag is lacking powder space, needs very high pressures to perform, should have been a Lott to start with, men have been stomped by wounded proboscides when the bolts were locked by too high pressures in the hot sun, it is the worst cartridge ever intended for use in Africa. Thats why I own two of them and no 416 AKI

The 458 400gr. bullet is a piece of crap on Buffalo, has no penitration and will get you into a world of hurt...Lack of sectional density is a bad bad boy in the African veld...We see this fail every time its used.

To improve the 458 go to a 450 gr. monolithic as it is as long as a conventional 500 gr. soft...and has a reasonalble reputation, but not great...I'm no 458 fan..I do like the 458 Lott..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com