I am planning my first trip to Africa and am now thinking of doing a Cape Buff hunt instead of only PG. While I won't get anything firmed up until SCI in Reno at the earliest, I need to get this rifle thing figured out.
First, I don't have anything bigger then 338 and haven't shot anything bigger then 375. If it affects caliber choice in your opinions I'm 6'1" 225 and I don't think recoil bothers me as much as some guys I know. My initial thought is that I would buy a 375. Looked at a CZ at cabelas and liked it. I do however have a friend who is an older gentleman and has hunted Africa several times in the 70's and 80's. I bring him up as he has a beautiful model 70 in 458 win that he said I was welcome to take, and frankly as he is beyond his DG hunting days, I think he would like me to have it. I guess my concern is that while I say recoil isn't an issue for me, there is I assume, a huge difference between my 300 weatherby or even my 338 win and a 458. I will have an opportunity at Thanksgiving to shoot the win and take it home with me so I will know more them. I just wonder if at this point for buff and pg, would I be happier with a 375 for everything, or the 458 and say my 300 weatherby? Not to muddy the waters even more, but should I also look at other options like 416 or 404? One concern for me is other then 375 and 458, I don't have access to any big bore calibers to try before I purchase and I want to be very informed about such a specialized gun before I take the plunge. We have no shortage of hogs out here, so once I make my selection, I can get plenty of real world experience with it. I know I'm long winded but this is all part of the adventure to me and I know there are lots of guys here that really know alot about this subject. I look forward to all input.

I think taking two rifles is becoming more and more problematic. If you have the time to become really proficient with the .458 and are hunting in an area where even the plains game will be 150 yards or less, then you could certainly do it with one rifle.

But here is where the .375 shines: a one rifle safari. It will work splendidly on the plains game (I shot my springbok in July at around 230 yards with mine) and you can really dial in buffalo and be confident of good shot placement. The man with the most buffalo I know of is Saeed and he uses a .375 caliber rifle.

I don't think anyone should be without a 375 H&H in their collection. So yes, you should buy one.

As far as the 458 win. They kick about the same as a 416, so if you have a 375 as your medium taking a 458 as your heavy makes sense.

And maybe I am missing something, but if your friend wants you to have his 458, I don't think you should say no.

With a 375 and a 458 you have your bases covered and don't need anything else. But you sound like you have been bitten by the bug just like the rest of us. You will soon find that "need" is something that we create to rationalize our next purchase.

JBrown,
I agree, assuming this gentleman does try to give me his 458 as he had previously said I certainly won't say no. I guess I was just concerned that since I haven't shot anything bigger then a grizzly, with nothing larger then a 338, is the 458 just "over my head" for the first time out. I also didn't know if I liked the idea of traveling with 2 guns, and being my first trip I want to make certain that several PG animals are on the menu too. I wondered if I should still buy a 375 for the first trip and learn to handle the 458 for the return trip for another buff or elephant that seems to be inevitable, or is the 458 versatile enough that I should not buy a 375 and use that money on trophy fees. Also, the 458 has iron sights and I like the idea of keeping it that way, and want still want to have a scoped rifle for plains game.

Not sure why two guns are an issue if they are in the same case? It is always nice to have a back up.

If he gives you a .458 and you buy a .375 -- you are set.

.458 is doable -- just don't try to make it a bench gun.

ive got a .338 win mag, .375 h&h, .416 rem mag, and a .458 win mag.... all mod 70's.... without getting into the pf vs crf arguement, they all shoot fine... have yet to go to africa, so i can't offer you experience there.. i can tell you that the .338 has a more harsh recoil (faster) than any on the others... i shoot 270 gr factory loads in the .375.... .400 gr stuff in the .416 and either 350 or 510's in the .458... the .458 is easy to shoot, i restocked it earlier this yr with winchester take-off synthetic... with a limbsaver recoil pad... scoped it weighs just under 10 lbs... and i shoot it well...with the 350 gr hornadys' it's tame to shoot... you can always shoot reduced loads to get comfortable and then move to full-house when need be...watch out the big-bore bug bites hard, and 1 isn't enough...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_Helm:
Not sure why two guns are an issue if they are in the same case? It is always nice to have a back up.


Good point on the one case.
Is customs in Africa more of a headache with 2 guns?

Also from the next post, good to hear about the recoil. I agree to me, my 338 has a more unpleasant recoil the the 375 of a friends I have shot.

I don't really see that two guns makes much of a difference when clearing, but have not tried it with just one.

You do have less ammo allowance per gun (total weight limit) but that should not be a problem.

Take a look at the .375 Ruger and .416 Ruger before you make a final decision.

1. Traveling with and maintaining one rifle is a little easier than two so that makes a good case for the 375.

2. You would be happier with more rifles so that makes a good case for your .300 bee and .458 M70 pair


Proud Citizen of the Bolt Trash Nation of Riflemen

375 with proper bullets. I am sure most PH's will agree with this. Lots of people buy a big bore and they ara afraid of it after shooting it at the range.

You are a lot better with a well placed 375 then a poorly placed 458 Lott.

The first time and only time Iwent to Africa, I had a 375 HH loaded with North Forks and a 470 double.

If and when I go back it will be with the 375 and North Forks again.

Most PH's would rather people bring a gun they can shoot accurately. That is very easy with 375.

My dad and I took two rifles each to Zimbabwe and had no problem with Customs in either direction. We each used a TuffPak andit worked great.

I originally bought my 416 Weatherby for a one-rifle safari. Ultimately I had AHR build me a 600OK for Cape Buffalo and used the 416 for PG. Our PH loves the 416 for both. My dad used his 585 AHR for his buffalo and his 300 SAUM for PG. All rifles were immensely effective.

If you can handle the 375 I am confident you can handle the 458. If I were faced with your dilemma, I would borrow/buy the 458 and take the 300 Weatherby and enjoy a fantastic safari with two excellent tools purpose built for the game you are hunting. Nothing wrong with the 375 as everyone here will tell you and our pH carried one as his only riflem but I like specific tools for specific purposes.

Either way - 375 or 300/458 combo you can't go wrong because you will be on safari in Africa and nothing else matters once there!

quote:

If you can handle the 375 I am confident you can handle the 458.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't notice hardly any difference in recoil on the .458 and the .375. If you can shoot a .375, you will have no trouble with a .458 Win Mag. The Lott smacks you harder.

Last safari I took just my .375, but in close with buffalo in the thick stuff, I was wishing for a short barreled .458. If plans coalesce, I'll be taking a .375 and a .458 Win on my next trip. If I were limited to just one gun, it would be the .375.

quote:

watch out the big-bore bug bites hard, and 1 isn't enough...

You might as well get both the 375 and 458 because you'll wind up getting them both eventually. Big bores are like cancer - there is no cure. Just wait until you get invited out hunting and you're sitting there debating whether you want to bring the 375 or the 458 ... or maybe the 404 ... or possibly the 416. There's no such thing as too much gun you'll tell your friends as you pull out a 505 Gibbs to shoot varmints.

quote:

Originally posted by Sevens:

quote:

watch out the big-bore bug bites hard, and 1 isn't enough...

You might as well get both the 375 and 458 because you'll wind up getting them both eventually. Big bores are like cancer - there is no cure. Just wait until you get invited out hunting and you're sitting there debating whether you want to bring the 375 or the 458 ... or maybe the 404 ... or possibly the 416. There's no such thing as too much gun you'll tell your friends as you pull out a 505 Gibbs to shoot varmints.

Oh wow. You were talking about me right. I guess we all get the big bore bug. In fact I don't own a small bore anymore. All are big or bigger.

I give you my opinion, for the game plain you have enough with the 338 Winchester Magnum and for Buffalo I would choose a 416 Rigby, because I consider that most appropriate cartridge for dangerous hunting than 375 H & H Magnum. Another tip is that you different with the two and you check the decline of both and with which you feel more comfortable, but the 416 Rigby is a wonderful cartridge with great power to stop and very good ground.

A greeting and enjoy your safari

Oscar.

I think if someone is going to let you "live-inherit" a mod.70 in 458 WM and you have an oportunity to thank him by shooting your first Cape Buff with it, then it should be compulsory that you do it.

For your other gun you can simply choose between the 338 Win & the 300 Wby. Both are probably a touch too much for the rest of the PG but will certainly do the job just fine. Take the one you like most and shoot best.

As to shooting the 458, well as an open sighted buff gun you are going to have to make sure that your outfitter is aware that that is the type of hunt you will require. Then practice with slightly reduced loads first and work up. Do NOT shoot more than absolutely neccessary off the bench. Shoot off "Africa" sticks as much as possible and free hand also. You have enough time and that pig hunting you mention will probably be a lot trickier than the eventual buff hunt so superb preparation. Make sure the stock FITS you!!!

Heavy bullets at moderate velocities make for relatively comfortable "push" rather than "whack" type recoil and do a better job killing, so if you are buying ammo then look at heavy for calibre options.
If you are reloading then just copy the "thinking" of Norma with their African PH Range. (My choice would be a swift A-Frame in 500gr I think. If you can't get it fast enough or accurate go to the 450gr) Remember, open sighted means shots less than 100m so don't fret over "minute-of-angle" all you need is "minute-of-buffalo"

Great info from everyone thanks for so much help. Someone brought up making sure the gun fits. How much alteration is typically done to a rifle? As said I'm only a shade bigger then average at 6'1" so what really affects fit? Arm length? Truthfully, beyond changing recoil pads on a little shotgun or two that seemed too small I've never had a gun altered. I recognize we are dealing with different guns now and it may be neccesary, I just don't know anything about it.

Fit: Stare at some distant object. Close your eyes and bring the rifle to your shoulder. If it points to that object, it fits. I am 6'0" and standard Weatherby MkVs and Winchester M70s fit me very well.

I use low scope mounts. Many people use ones that are too high, and also too much magnification.

As for rifle choice, I would take my .300 magnum and the .458. It's just as easy to take two as it is one (three is problematical). You will hjave enough ammo. I never saw much point in having a .375 or .416 if I could have a .458.

Hello, I have a 338 Winchester Magnum, a 375 H & H Magnum and a 458 Lott, however I have no money to go hunting. I am happy to take them and enjoy watching them. Perhaps someday my fate change and can go to hunt with them jejeje.

A greeting

Oscar.

Oscar, I would love nothing more than to read hunt report of a buff safari from you. You definitely deserve it. One never knows what the future may bring. Good luck!

Shoot the 458.

If you can handle it, take it and your 338.

Sounds like a perfect pair to me...

PS I think it is an excellent plan to hunt cape buff on our first African trip.

I would tell you to shoot a cow elephant on your first trip as well....

But to do so would be about the same as having you smoke CRACK and shoot HEROIN, on the same day....

I say ABOUT the same as elephant hunting is much more addictive...

I think I'm going to pick up the 458 at Thanksgiving, start practicing and learning how to shoot it. Assuming it isn't "too much" for me, I will take it. I really hope I can learn to become proficient with it as it seems as waste to be given a gun like that and not use it for what it was designed to do. But, if I do realize its not for me, I will start looking for a 375 of my own.

The next step is SCI Reno to figure out some of this. I decided to go in 2010 or 2011 and it started as a PG hunt so my wife could come along. The more I have learned here and elsewhere, I can see that there is no reason I can't do the Buff thing too first time out and still bring her. So now I need to start learning about who is out there and checking references and making my list of people to track down in Reno. I'm sure I will have a ton of questions for all you veterans of this sort of thing as I go.

quote:

Originally posted by jetdrvr:
Oscar, I would love nothing more than to read hunt report of a buff safari from you. You definitely deserve it. One never knows what the future may bring. Good luck!

God can hear you, thank you to you your good wishes . Every week I play the lottery, but still I have not had luck .

Thank you,

Oscar