I bought my first over .40 bore and thought I would share my experience with others who might be looking at a new Winchester Safari Express. I made my decision based on opinions here and from other big bore forums and want to thank everyone for sharing their experiences as it was monumental in helping me choose the right gun the first time. I will never have buyer's remorse from this purchase. I just have to keep my wife from finding out about the new gun that followed me home. It is a new Safari Express in 416 Remington Magnum. I found the factory bedding to be to sparse and did a full length bedding before the first round was ever fired. This added minimal weight to the gun but it feels more solid and I highly recommend bedding the action and barrel. The scales I used are not totally accurate at lower weights but they read 9 lbs 6 oz without rings or bases and after bedding. The fit and finish were suprisingly above my expectations.I honed the feed ramp and rails because initial action testing was cutting the brass and hanging up during cycling. I used polishing compound on the rails and light buffing with a dremmel on the ramp.The bolt is now the smoothest feeding action I have ever owned. I did not know that the new CRF actions could be used like a push feed action where you drop a round in and close the bolt as well as cycle from the magazine. This is the best of both worlds and I may never go back to push feed bolts. I am a reloader and absolutely love the ease of recovering brass at the range from the CRF. Now for performance. I used 75 grains of H4350 for barrel break in. This load with 400 gr Hornady's averaged 1980 fps. I went to Reloader15 and 400gr Hornady's at 80gr(2410 fps)...81gr(2435fps)....82gr(2465fps). I think I will stick with 81gr of RL15 for the heavy load. I never experienced any pressure signs or flattened primers and cases never failed to extract easily. It was 96 degrees in the shade and I endured 3 hours of this torment while breaking in the barrel. For all those high pressure horror stories about the 416 Remington I say BULLCRAP!! I did a string of 24 shots with 400's going over 2400 fps and the barrel never got to cool down because of time limitations. I would take this round into any environment except maybe Hades and feel confident. As for recoil yes it was a step up from my 376 Steyr but I don't use any recoil taming devices and I enjoyed shooting from the bench and standing. I plan on shooting at least 50 rounds this coming week as temperatures will be subsiding a bit. The only drawback I saw was other shooters migrated to the far end of the range. Well maybe thats not so bad since so many younger shooters don't mind throwing their brass on the guy next to them with blatant disregard. Maybe I'm on to something here. Anyway I absolutely love this new boomer and I have the previous poster's to thank for their informed opinion's guiding me through the decision on a new rifle. Please forgive me if my post is a bit akward but it's something I rarely do.
I totally agree. I use the barnes bullets in 3 other rifles and they are superb. I had already planned to order TSX 350 and 300 grain bullets so I could work up loads with them. I really want to try the 350 TTSX but am wondering if the plastic tips will survive recoil in the magazine. Maybe someone who has experience with these in big bores will share their knowledge. I only went with the Hornady 400 Interlocks because of price during the break in. I chose 400's just to see what full loads feel like. Its kind of like getting behind the wheel of a Corvette....you know you are going to stomp on it.
Nice to hear good things about your rifle. I bought the same one back in April. I told my wife I have a rifle that starts with .2, antoher that starts with a .3, and another that starts with a .5 (muzzleloader). OBVIOUSLY I needed a rifle that started with a .4.
The action on mine was nice and smooth out of the box and has fed Norma factory rounds and a variety of handloads with almost no issues. It feeds best off a full magazine, but the last round out sometimes catches if you don't work the bolt with authority.
Have you had any fouling issues with yours? Even after breaking my barrel in I get horrible copper fouling off of just 5 rounds. I've been shooting Swift A-Frames and Hornady DGS. If I want to get the copper out I have to spend a day with the rifle plugged into a Foul-Out III system.
Best of luck with your load developement.
that which doesn't kill me is only postponing the inevitable...
Posts: 24 | Location: USA | Registered: 05 February 2011
Its heavy....I would estimate between 4-5 pounds. The trigger breaks cleanly and if you remove the drop of bedding material from the front of the trigger housing it is adjustable. I have not adjusted it yet so I have no idea what adjustment range there is. I can tell you this much....I am spoiled by Savage Accutriggers but think a heavy pull weight is appropriate on this caliber.
Update. I now have 100 rounds thru the gun and so far have not had any problems. Absolutely no pressure signs and it was 98 degrees today. Average velocity with 80 grains of Reloader15 with 400gr Hornady's is 2416 fps for 60 rounds. I believe this is an average speed barrel for that charge. The iron sights are basic NECG units and I will be upgrading them to See Thru fibre optics. I will be mounting a Bushnell Elite 6500 1.25-8x32 scope with QD bases and rings. The scope has a multi X reticle but I would prefer a German#4. I have 2 of the Elite 6500's now and prefer them over any scope under $1200. I will soon put on a Bell&Carlson Medalist or HS Precision stock with the aluminum bedding blocks. I can apreciate a fine wood stock as much as anyone but I cannot hunt comfortably with them for fear of dings and scratches. I am also researching different coatings to determine which will best suit my needs for weather proofing. Any advice on coatings will be greatly appreciated. I have decided against a Jewel trigger as the MOA unit will suit my needs for this application. I have become addicted to shooting this caliber and may have to take food away from my kids to buy more reloading supplies
It will be a few more months before I make all these changes. My wife still doesn't know I bought this gun.I will add to this post when I make any changes.
I'm sorry buckbrush and you are right. I do not have much experience with posting and I hated the ones I had already sent. I am still trying to learn the ins and outs for posting. I would like to post some pictures but have no idea how to attach them. Maybe I should get my teenagers to show me how to actually use a computer.
I have the same rifle same caliber. I sent mine off to canyon creek custom gunstocks where they accurized it, did a few cosmetic touches to it and put a gorgeous piece of wood on it.
I just got back from Zambia and took a buffalo hippo puku and impala with this particular rifle. I was able to recover a couple of the barnes tsx 400gr bullets that this rifle shoots extremely accurately. Bill
To answer your question of the Barnes 350gr TTSX plastic tips holding up under recoil, yes they hold up fine. I shoot them in my 416 Ruger and love them.
Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor
Posts: 1652 | Location: Deer Park, Texas | Registered: 08 June 2005
We are on the same page bgomez. I am also thinking about having this gun accurized and I am gonig to check out Canyon Creek. Thanx for the heads up because its always better to hear from an actual satisfied customer instead of a company's website.
That's great to know 30378. If you are using an Alaskan and the TTSX stands up to it then I should be golden. My gun is heavier and probably puts less stress on the tips so I think I just found my go to round.
What kind of accuracy are you getting with the 350 TTSX's. All the Barnes I have used have been 30 cal and so far have been superb. I would think they should be great in larger bores also but no experience with them yet. I am going to start using them in my 416 Rem and 376 Steyr.
Great caliber to get started in over .40 shooting. Beware once you get started its hard to quit. I finally sold my 416rem to fund my Searcy 450-400 DR. See what I mean congrats and have fun.
Brad
Posts: 619 | Location: Sherwood, Oregon USA | Registered: 07 August 2006
That is a very nice group. I would say an easy sub MOA gun at 100 yards. I need to get some of those bullets in and see for myself.
I agree shooting big bores is very addictive. I put 100 rounds down range in the first six days I owned the gun. I need to find someone who owns a 500 something or bigger that will let me shoot it. I imagine a full patch Jeffries or Gibbs would cool my heels.
It's funny but I had two different gun shops trying to talk me out of ordering this caliber. All the salesman said the same thing. You don't need that much gun or what in the world do you want that for. It would seem they were trying not to make a sale. You know what they say about people's opinions.
Reloader 15 in the 416 Rem Mag will handle all the bullets you can find.I have shot 325 gr -410 gr.I also have a 416 in a model 70.I bought it when they first came out.Its a fun guin to shoot.I love my reduced load of 350 gr speer bullet with 76 grs of Reloader 15.I have shot it with this load around 150 times .It like a heavy dove load.The 416 rem mag and others are an awesome dangerous game rifle.I like my Winchester model 70.I just need to get an hs stock on it.I have two Remington 700 416s and they are awesome too. Good shooting and hunting with that 416.
Those groups are good enough to embarass a varmint rifle. I would have been happy to keep 3 shots under an inch but now it seems I will be trying for a .5 MOA gun.
I have owned a lot of smaller caliber rifles and only 2 have consistently printed .5 inch groups. They are both savages in 308 Winchester and 223 Remington. I am an accuracy freak and held no disillusions that a large caliber rifle could shoot such tight groups. Those groups are a real eye opener.
The funny thing is I debated between a New Model 70 and Ruger Alaskan for 3 months. Now I want to add an Alaskan again. What a great time to be a gun enthusiast.
Think about the level of quality and accuracy today's rifles are capable of. We are enjoying custom rifle accuracy at a price level unheard of 20 years ago.
Originally posted by Sid-: Those groups are good enough to embarass a varmint rifle. I would have been happy to keep 3 shots under an inch but now it seems I will be trying for a .5 MOA gun.
I have owned a lot of smaller caliber rifles and only 2 have consistently printed .5 inch groups. They are both savages in 308 Winchester and 223 Remington. I am an accuracy freak and held no disillusions that a large caliber rifle could shoot such tight groups. Those groups are a real eye opener.
The funny thing is I debated between a New Model 70 and Ruger Alaskan for 3 months. Now I want to add an Alaskan again. What a great time to be a gun enthusiast.
Think about the level of quality and accuracy today's rifles are capable of. We are enjoying custom rifle accuracy at a price level unheard of 20 years ago.
Great to see another Safari Express shooting well. I bought one last year in .375H&H and after a little work have two very accurate loadings in 300gr TSX and A-Frame. The A-Frame is ever so slightly more accurate, but the TSX would be just fine to hunt with too. My groupings in the A-Frame are very similar to what I see in this thread.
I did have one slight problem. I found that if I didn't crimp my rounds, the front edge of the neck on the brass would sometimes hang up on the rear edge of the chamber. I showed it to a gunsmith and he recommended I crimp the rounds. No problem since.
Are you crimping your rounds for your 416? I love my rifle just as it is and plan no changes. Love it so much, I'm giving thoughts to a second in 416 Remington. Congrats again on your results.
Posts: 584 | Location: Phoenix, AZ | Registered: 13 August 2004
Originally posted by 30378: The rifle, target and loads that I use. The target is the 350gr TTSX using 77gr of Varget, 3 shot group at 50yds with open sights.
Am confused, is your rifle a 416 Rem Mag? No belt on the photo of the rounds you posted.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
I am crimping all my ful patch loads because I have read of bullets getting compacted into the case from heavy recoiling rifles. I loaded 30 rounds at 2000 fps to help break in the barrel that were not crimped. I have not had any hang ups going into the chamber with either so far. I polished the feed ramp and rails before I ever shot the gun. It had feeding problems when new from the rails bitting into the brass when feeding from the magazine.
I am a bit anal about my guns and always go thru a thorough feed and function test and bed the stock. I then check for things like headspace and get COAL lengths. I have a friend with a borescope so I check that also. I always do a safety check to make sure it functions properly. I have never been able to leave a gun as is because everything can be made better. It's a hobby and I love working on guns whether it's mine or a friend's.
I got my M70 Classic Stainless coated with Nylite, which is a matt black Teflon finish. It looks good and has held up. No doubt other members of this board have used a variety of coatings.
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002
Love Barnes TSXs but I just had a negative experience with TTSXs in Zambia.
For years I was a devout Swift shooter and I am still a huge fan of the A-Frame. In my experience, however, the A-Frame only occasionally exits - I have recovered many A-Frames just under the skin on the opposite shoulder. I started shooting Barnes TSXs a couple of years ago and results were awesome. Anything shot in the proper place took a couple steps and keeled over dead. I have rarely recovered a TSX - they almost always exit and leave a very nice blood trail, though in my experience you don't need to trail very far.
So I more or less switched to the Barnes bullet for most of my rifles (I still shoot Hornady in my 450/400, as neither Barnes nor Swift make a bullet for it as far as I can tell).
In getting ready for this summer's trip to Zambia I loaded a bunch of 7mm TTSX's - the TSX with the little blue plastic tips. These were slightly more accurate than the standard TSX's. Not enough to make any difference in hunting, but who wants to use the "less" accurate bullet? So I took them over and my son and I started happily shooting them at various PG - Cookson's Wildebeeste, Puku, Waterbuck, etc.
The first Puku shot with a TTSX ran off with a herd as though I had missed it. Everything looked good to me and felt good to me, but there was no "whump" when he was hit and he didn't buck. When we checked the area where he had been standing when I shot, we found no blood. Trackers fanned out and searched in the direction he ran. No blood. We looked for about 30 minutes and concluded a miss. As we were walking back to the truck, we ACCIDENTALLY stumbled upon the Puku, stone dead, shot perfectly on the shoulder. A little blood where he fell, but otherwise none. The exit hole was about the size of the entrance hole. I thought that was weird but was elated that the shot was true and that we had recovered the animal.
A day later we repeated virtually the same experience with a wildebeeste. Almost no blood, little reaction to the first shot, entrance hole and exit hole approximately the same size. Fortunately he ran about 50 yards and stopped and looked at me. Wham! I hit him again and this time he bucked and there was clearly a "whump". He went another 75 or yards with a clearly broken off front leg and piled up. Both shots were on the shoulder where they should be.
We concluded that the TTSXs were not opening. They were acting like solids and basically passing straight through.
That night after dinner and a discussion about these experiences with the PH, I took out my Leatherman and pulled the tips off most of my remaining 7mm TTSXs, essentially turning them into TSXs.
Thereafter we had the usual Barnes performance - good size exits and lots of blood.
I still love the Barnes bullet, but my confidence in the tipped version for hunting was shaken, and I think I'll stick with the non-tipped version from here on out.
That's very useful info. I use TSX's in all three of my Africa rifles with great satisfaction, and have been curious about the tipped versons. Not any more.
Posts: 2827 | Location: Seattle, in the other Washington | Registered: 26 April 2006
I really like the gun and caliber also. This is my first Winchester but it will not be my last. I may get a Super Grade or Extreme Weather SS in 338 WM.
Sid, Great thread. I've been really happy shooting my 375 H&H, but have the opportunity to snag the same rifle(Remington KS Mountain)in a 416. You might have helped me pull the trigger on that one. Thanks
PS: And once you've got a fair supply of rifles, wives typically can't tell them apart anyway.
Posts: 244 | Location: Kansas City, Kansas | Registered: 16 September 2002
I just have to be extra careful with my wife. She is a legal secretary and works for three attorney's and they woud clean me out. She does understand about the love of guns tho. One attorney she worked for who passed away recently was a Grand master pistol champion and gun collector. His name was Stan Smith in case any of you knew him.
Originally posted by Sid-: Update. I now have 100 rounds thru the gun and so far have not had any problems. Absolutely no pressure signs and it was 98 degrees today. Average velocity with 80 grains of Reloader15 with 400gr Hornady's is 2416 fps for 60 rounds. I believe this is an average speed barrel for that charge. The iron sights are basic NECG units and I will be upgrading them to See Thru fibre optics. I will be mounting a Bushnell Elite 6500 1.25-8x32 scope with QD bases and rings. The scope has a multi X reticle but I would prefer a German#4. I have 2 of the Elite 6500's now and prefer them over any scope under $1200. I will soon put on a Bell&Carlson Medalist or HS Precision stock with the aluminum bedding blocks. I can apreciate a fine wood stock as much as anyone but I cannot hunt comfortably with them for fear of dings and scratches. I am also researching different coatings to determine which will best suit my needs for weather proofing. Any advice on coatings will be greatly appreciated. I have decided against a Jewel trigger as the MOA unit will suit my needs for this application. I have become addicted to shooting this caliber and may have to take food away from my kids to buy more reloading supplies
Originally posted by Sid-: I totally agree. I use the barnes bullets in 3 other rifles and they are superb. I had already planned to order TSX 350 and 300 grain bullets so I could work up loads with them. I really want to try the 350 TTSX but am wondering if the plastic tips will survive recoil in the magazine. Maybe someone who has experience with these in big bores will share their knowledge. I only went with the Hornady 400 Interlocks because of price during the break in. I chose 400's just to see what full loads feel like. Its kind of like getting behind the wheel of a Corvette....you know you are going to stomp on it.
I wouldn't worry about plastic tips deforming. After every shot you can top off the magazine before the next animal. You might want solids in the magazine in any case, so that you can shoot an animal running straight away as a second shot.
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"A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
