Ran across a matched pair of Whitworth rifles at the show today. The first was a 375 Ackley, the second a 450 Watts. Both rifles had barrel bands, 3 leaf express sights, Griffin and Howe detachable scope mounts and Leupold Vari X 2 scopes 1.5 x4. Both had the original stocks but had very nice grip caps installed. Stamped on both barrels was the name "Barkley"....does that ring any bells???

Anyway, I'm wondering what the rifles are worth? They are in excellent condition....at least 98% and I was offered the pair for $1650......

I liked the guns but those scope mounts are seriously ugly and would have to go!!!!

Forgot to ask, where would you get 450 Watts dies? Would Lott dies work?

[ 04-06-2003, 07:36: Message edited by: GonHuntin ]

I was with him and the guns were pretty nice. The grip caps were case colored and weren't the front sights banded too? I actually liked the scope mounts...I'm trying to talk GH into getting the matched pair. He'd have a tough time trying to match it later. Maybe someone else will kick in some peer pressure here

Sounds pretty reasonable, except there will be some risk in picking up these rifles.

The first and foremost issue is feeding. If not set up properly, you could have serious feeding issues, including cartridges that do not center over the chamber and the last round popping out of the magazine. Best to check feeding several times when slamming the bolt back and forth hard from full magazine to empty to be sure it works.

Second, since the watts started out as a win mag presumably, make sure that the mag box is deep enough to fit 3 down plus 1 in the chamber. Check before you buy. ANd putting 3 rounds of 458 win mag down is not a check since the rounds are so much shorter. The factory H&H length mag box has a lot of taper in it and often will not fit 3 rounds of 450 watts down. Getting all 3 rounds in may mean going to a deeper mag box ($300 plus bluing plus gunsmithing) and a new stock to accomodate it.

You can get 450 watts dies from ch4d, or just use 458 lott dies since the watts is only .050 longer in case length.

GonHuntin,

I might have some interest in the G&H mounts if you decide to replace them. Email me wootjlj@cybersouth.com .

Thanks,
Jim

I might also be interested in the G&H mounts.

These seem to be straight rechamber jobs, of a 375 H&H, and 458 Win Mag Whitworth African express rifles. The case colored grip cap is a stock item on the express, and is not a replacement. Like 500grains, I'd check the feeding, and capacity of the magazines. However if everything is all right, then the $1650 is not a bargain, but a fair price. The G&H mount and rings is a upgrade custom mount, and is a quality item, that boosts the value of these two rifles! If you sell the mounts, you could recoup some of your money. The Whitworth action is a damentional copy of the FN mauser, and bases for FN fit them. So those G&H mounts would have a wide apllication.

I understand the concerns with feeding but this is a gunshow. They don't let you do that anymore guys!

Griffin & Howe sidemounts are not easily installed on heavy recoiling rifles. The sideplate has to be milled perfectly to the contour of the receiver. Otherwise, there is too much stress on the screws and pins. The mounts work best on receivers with a flat side.

Try to examine the mounts closely to see if there are any gaps between the base and the receiver. A hack job does not add to the value, if you will need to have the bases re-mounted (properly). Some folks even insist on having the bases welded on.

Also keep in mind that if you decide to sell the mounts, you will have a large gap in the stock that will need to be filled.

There are no loaded rounds in either caliber to test with...no dies either.

I'm wondering if GH will tell you about the custom 8 mag we looked at. It was a nice buy also.

Id pick them up in a heartbeat. These aren't that common a rifle, and the mounts alone are worth a fair chunk of cash. - Dan

I passed on the Whitworths.....I went back to buy the 8mm Mag that Yukon Delta mentioned....it was gone......I checked on the Whitworths and the 375 imp was gone....the 450 Watts was still there....I got the contact info.....if anyone is interested send me a PM and I'll pass it along.

[ 04-07-2003, 02:32: Message edited by: GonHuntin ]

That's too bad about the 8 mag. It was a Rimrock fiberglass (not plastic) Rem 700 with a Lilja fluted barrel and nicely executed removable brake of unknown make. Scope was a Leupold Vari-X II I believe. Also had a M70 safety. Price was about $900 or so.

I figured it would be a nice rifle to compare to my Remington custom shop 8 mag which is very accurate and light.

When you're at a show as large as the Tulsa one, it's very difficult to know whether to buy or keep looking. I've had a few of these stories myself...highly irritating. If the owner would have known more about the gun you could have gotten it sooner. That's another irritating thing...many dealers have little or no info about the guns they are selling. If they're customs then you're rolling the dice so to speak. GH found out too late who the maker was and now we're kicking ourselves for his not getting it immediately.

[ 04-07-2003, 03:16: Message edited by: yukon delta ]