Last month at a local library "rummage sale", my mom just picked out 2 books off of a table that she thought might interest me. One of the books happened to be "Safari" by Elmer Keith. She gave it to me over the weekend. I opened it and lo and behold, it was autographed by Elmer himself. He had signed it for a local lawyer that was an acquaintence of his and the lawyer cleaned out his book cases for the rummage sale. It was signed June 5, 1978. She gave a whole .50 cents for it. Lucky me.

Lucky you indeed.Congratulations!

they are going in the $400 range these days, IF you can find one for sale.

You gotta be kidding. Not only did Elmer sign it, he went through the book and crossed out names and places that were incorrect and wrote the corrections in. It' neat as hell. I heard that a big time firearms collector just bought one of Elmer's rifles....?

Have signed letters and notes from Elmer. A great opiniated, truthful as he saw it kind of gentleman.

Hell, I grew up reading his stuff. Don't think I fully believed all of it but I definitely remember it all. I thought it was cool as hell.

Large caliber, heavy bullet weight, and moderate velocity...Elmer was The Man!

John Taylor had that same opinion as do I.Check out Taylor's Knock Down Formula.The same rules apply.

He was a legend, and anything any of us do in our lives will likely be re-covering tracks he already made, but I never really cared for him. Anyone that claimed the only thing a 30-caliber rifle was good for was coyotes didn't have all his eggs in one basket, as far as I am concerned.

Sorry, just my $.02...

No worries,everyone is entitled to their own opinion,that's why we make Ford's + Chevy's.As much as I respect the man I also take issue with some of his ballistical designs.I was dubious concerning his .44 loads w/2400 back in the early 70's when all we had was C.O.P. as a reference guage.The same theory applies to the .33 O.K.H. A fine calibre that never really went anywhere.BUT HE TRIED!!! Without our pioneers in the fraternity where would we be.I know that for years I would come up with a NEW wildcat that would set the world on fire,then pull out P.O. Ackley's books + find that he did it at least 20 years previously.

IdahoSharpshooter is RIGHT!! I have one too as I used to correspond with him as a kid!! I think I have one of each of his books...very interesting guy. If you are ever in Boise ID. at Cabela's they have a permanent display of most of his guns and trophies...and a lifesized talking reporduction of the old boy sitting at his desk with the old Remington typerwiter he used to write on!! Very well done!
On the same trip last week we did the Jack O'Connor museum in Lewiston ID...another great display and worth a visit. I am looking for a nice copy of his book CONQUEST....that will complete my collection of his 16 books!
Cheers

As I recall, Jack O'Connor wrote a final book (which I have somewhere back in the US) in which he really expressed his feelings. He said that Elmer was never a guide, but only a self-glorifying packer on Western hunts. Does anyone remember the details?

I always liked what they both wrote, though over the years each got somewhat repetitive.

the first reason they didnt get along was jack got drunk on a Winchester duck shoot and peppered Elmer Keith an a bunch of other writers.Jack was a grumpy old man who charged at shows to sign his books.Elmer Keith Guided in Alaska and Idaho on the Snake river.He helped invent the Winchester model 70 ,R uger Black hawk Ruger #1 and 77 44 mag 41 mag 338-378 KT and a ton of other things.Jack oconner only invented himself and the 270 as a kill anything gun!

Wasn't he some old dude who invented the bowling ball mortar?

I enjoyed Keith's writing. Was one of the "old guard" that built the foundations we work with. Am glad he passed this way!

quote:

Originally posted by Anjin:
As I recall, Jack O'Connor wrote a final book (which I have somewhere back in the US) in which he really expressed his feelings. He said that Elmer was never a guide, but only a self-glorifying packer on Western hunts. Does anyone remember the details?

I always liked what they both wrote, though over the years each got somewhat repetitive.

John Jobson told me the same thing, and gave me a copy of a letter from an Alaskan outfitter who Elmer claimed to work as a guide for, to support it.

I don't know how much either of them wrote was pure truth and how much wasn't, but Jack and Elmer were both primary contributors to the great growth in popularity of sport shooting and hunting in this country.

jackass oconner was too big of a wus to hunt with anything bigger than 270.He shot park elephANTS IN AFRICA and got drunk at winchester duck shoot and peppered everyone,He was a total ass.He was snotty didnt invent anything but himself!

Elmer still stirs up arguments after all these years. I've read his "Sixguns" at least three times, but my favorite is "Hell I was There," his autobiographical memoir.
Elmer was nothing if not a pile of contradictions in a small, feisty package. A deceased gunsmith who married P.O. Ackley's daughter told me once that Ackley got a huge kick out of Elmer when he worked at the Ogden arsenal. Apparently the guys used to love to make Elmer mad to the point that he would challenge them to a gunfight after work.
I couldn't quite figure out his disgust for the .30-06, either. But he earned a lot of his opinions the hard way -- first hand in the woods and mountains -- that very few in this world get to do any more. I'm not a worshiper at the Chapel of Elmer, but I am deeply grateful for his contributions to hunting, shooting and firearms development in recent times. He was an American original.
As was Jack O'Connor. A college professor and one of the best gun writers this country has produced, he sure had his warts, too. But I grew up reading Outdoor Life, and Jack gave me an appreciation of the 7X57, the .375 H&H and the .416 Rigby and the importance of GOOD SHOOTING that I wouldn't trade for a stack of .270s.
And yes, I have heard over and over that he was a S.O.B.
My life has been the richer for reading both Keith and O'Connor.

dgr416- I find your comments quite offensive and have no place in a forum such as this! I will bet you are not old enough to appreciate either of these guys or to have known or spoke or met them either...I have...in fact about the time you wrote this I was enroute to JOC's son's home for a visit and to deliver some holiday smoked salmon.
Everything you have said is simply BUNK!!
I have been fortunate enough to have been involved with the JOC Education Center and Museum and many of its high profile Board members who knew Jack very well....and hunted with him annually, as well as having visited his gunmaker last weekend to pick up my own 270!Yes, Jack had an attitude....that's called personality, and I have not heard any one of his close firends complain of it...that was just Jack...you know those kinds too, I am sure!
Each and every one of these Iconic writers are clearly INDIVIDUALS and have contributed greatlly to sport hunting and shooting in our benefit. To tear them down on Hearsay is simply moronic on your part!!...I hope your evaluators of late....and 25 years after you pass are just as harsh on you!!
The only Elephant I am aware that JOC took was in the famous Galana safari area in Kenya. That said, perhaps you don't understand how the safari areas of Africa work either...many of the Parks are hunted legally for conservation purposes!
When I think of some of these old writers...but really any very successful and iconic people, I think of words like- self confident, strong willed, dogmatic, domineering, emphatic, forward and insistent....and many others simply cannot deal with this success or behavior!!
Bill/Oregon- thank you for your thoughts ....well stated!
Let's let these old fellows that contributed so much rest in peace....and appreciate what they have left us with!!
Personalities are just that....Personalities, likem or leavem, EH??!!
Cheers

doubless,

you need to go to your dictionary and look up the word "Context". There is a major difference between ignorance and stupidity. You are straddling that line...
32 years after you die, as well as most of us, the caretaker won't even be able to tell vistors (not that you will have any), where your remains are located.
NOT to give offense, but these gentlemen are greatly responsible for many of the advances we have today. Keith both the 44 and 41 Magnums. Ever hear the story about how Bill Ruger had somebody going thru the dumpsters at S&W trying to find out about the new super 44 Keith got S&W to build.


470Eddy,

they were giants, both of them. I go to the cemetery where Mr Keith and his wife are buried.
There are usually a couple cars there, with people taking pictures. Lots of out of state plates, east coast as well.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Last month at a local library "rummage sale", my mom just picked out 2 books off of a table that she thought might interest me. One of the books happened to be "Safari" by Elmer Keith. She gave it to me over the weekend. I opened it and lo and behold, it was autographed by Elmer himself. He had signed it for a local lawyer that was an acquaintence of his and the lawyer cleaned out his book cases for the rummage sale. It was signed June 5, 1978. She gave a whole .50 cents for it. Lucky me.

That's about the coolest thing ever!

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
My life has been the richer for reading both Keith and O'Connor.

Bill,

Your closing statement in your post pretty well sums it up, at least for me. I learned a lot from both of them and still love to spend a snowy winter afternoon in front of the fire with Elmer or Jack. And you can throw in Charles (Sr or Jr) or Nash or Townsend. They all still have something to tell me after these many years.

Mart

I remember a story about Jack.That during the depression he had his family + everything they owned in a station wagon going west.He noticed a sign that said "Turkey Shoot". $1.00 per ticket.They needed food so he paid his dollar + toed the line with the others firing offhand at 100 yds. All except for one kid who was set up prone.He asked the others why the kid was allowed to shoot prone + they told him that you can shoot prone too if you want to. He said "I'll take 10 tickets."

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
but my favorite is "Hell I was There," his autobiographical memoir.

A bloody good read. If he is an indication, they were sure bred tough.

I didn't think a great deal of either of these gentlemen. I am more of a P.O. Ackley disciple. However anyone that won't give credit where credit is due is pretty much STOOPIT. I acknowledge and very much appreciate both of these "characters". They were both legends in their own minds and are legends in fact. My thanks to both for passing this way. Jim

Seems if each month the Guns and Ammo magazine has several references to Elmer, usually 44mag related.

Well, I finally stopped G+A after Col. Cooper died.I found it foolish to buy a magazine to only read one page,When Elmer,Bill Jordan,etc. were editors then there was something to read.This new pablum to the masses is offensive; almost as offensive as porky Ventinurno calling himself the "Duke".John Wayne envy + we all know it.

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Last month at a local library "rummage sale", my mom just picked out 2 books off of a table that she thought might interest me. One of the books happened to be "Safari" by Elmer Keith. She gave it to me over the weekend. I opened it and lo and behold, it was autographed by Elmer himself. He had signed it for a local lawyer that was an acquaintence of his and the lawyer cleaned out his book cases for the rummage sale. It was signed June 5, 1978. She gave a whole .50 cents for it. Lucky me.

That's about the coolest thing ever!

I thought it was pretty cool. Then I sold it to a gent who collects his stuff and donated the proceeds to the Stu Taylor relief fund. I thought it served it's purpose well.

I hope you got A LOT for it as it is the rarest of Keith's books and has never been reprinted.

Having printed and sold 1000s of copies of the 1961 Edition of Sixguns (the one you want), I can tell you old Elmer still has a large following and his writing style, while not as polished as JOC's,has a reality to it lacking in today's scribes. If you don't own everything he wrote, your library in incomplete.

I knew a man who knew Elmer well and often describes him as "a loudmouth with a big hat who was deadly shooter". A man could have a far worse epitaph. The giants have passed and we are left with mostly sheepies who only can dial 911.

I probably didn't get the going rate but I did get to add quite a bit to the relief fund. For a .50 cent investment, I thought it was worth it.

I buy Elmer's books when I can find them. I have almost a full set at Dad's house. I am working on a 2nd set for myself, and I'll put a little more work into it after we figure out where we are going to live.

Dad guided the One Shot Antelope Hunt for a number of years, and has met most of the gunwriters of the 1960's and 1970's.

Yesterday afternoon I picked up one of Elmer Keith's rifles.

Shiloh Sharps built him a rifle, serial number: EK 100.

Nobody ever did that for that other fellow...

That is awesome Elmer Keith was one of my heros.I wish I had just one of his guns!!!!He died broke from being in hospital from stroke.They sold his guns very cheap to pay the bills.I see a few pop up every once in a while.Cabela in Idaho is buying as many of his guns as they can find for display of his stuff they have!!!

For what it's worth dept. This months copy of American Handgunner has an article on the Keith #5.Seems Power custom is making grip frames to fit to the ruger blackhawk frame as hammer + triggers to bring it up to snuff;as well as a contact for an ivory grip maker. I already have a #5 but the thoughts of getting another for less than $400.00 material cost is tempting.As to the ivory stocks,I have been using Dan Chesiak out of Hartford.He does excellent work in ivory;did all my colts in the safe,I recommend him highly.