I appologise in advance for the long post. I have never been as bothered by this issue as I am now, but here goes.

Many shooters, myself included are over a barrel with our choke tubes. I would like to do some pattern testing, but only have rudimentary knowledge of distances and how to accurately measure the results.

What distance do you test at?

With my heavy waterfowl guns(SP10) I know I will try shots much, much farther and at birds flying faster than doves which I shoot with a 16ga. Even though I did 99% of my waterfowl last year with a 16ga and did quite well.

How do you calculate percentage of shot hitting "target zone" when shooting a buffered load?--How much of the 1-3/4oz payload is shot and how much is buffer? What is more important, the percentage of the shot charge delivered to the target or the number of pellet strikes?

What percentage/# of strikes should one expect per given choke tubes?

All my tubes are Briley knurled extended, rated for lead and steel. The marking on the tubes are for lead. Folks at Briley told me the individual patterns from various non-toxic shot will vary, which leads me down this road..........

The loads I want to test are:

16ga 15/16oz #2 & #4 steel @1300fps,
1-1/4oz#4 HeviShotDuck @1300.
IC and Skeet.

10ga, Here is the whopper. I have many more loads for 10ga.
1-5/8 F, T, and BBB at Max dram-whatever velocity that is...
HeviShotDuck #6 1-3/4oz @1300,
Remington WingmasterHD 1-3/4 BB, #2 @1300.
Tubes: SK, IC, and LM.

Interesting note on the tubes...The Briley SKEET tube has the same constriction as the Remington IMP-MOD-for steel-that came with the gun. No clue how that is going to work.

I have read the larger shot works better with the more open chokes and HeviShot requires much less choke than lead to produce incredibly tight patterns.

Ideas, suggestions?

Andy

You have given, for me anyway, an overload of information/questions, but if you go to the MEC web site(reloading equip. mfg.) they have a good source of info that may be of help to you.
With a Google search your specific questions/answers can be found I am sure.

The standard test is 40 yds.
Always pattern your loads ,never assume !! That includes the gadgets , special chokes, etc.
Every gun/choke/ammo combination can be different !!

It's relatively simple, to try to answer your questions in order:

40 yds is standard test distance, but if you're talking skeet or IC some use 25 or 30 yards. It doesn't really matter if you're comparing apples to apples.

Buffering weighs almost nothing, it is simply ground plastic and the wt is insignificant. Just use a pellets per ounce chart, figure # pellets, # hits (some people figure both a 30 inch circle and a center 20 inch circle), and figure percentage.

Percentages are simply the otherside of how many pellets are hits, no difference. If you mean which is more important, more hits or bigger holes/hits, it would depend on range and remaining pellet energy.

As mentioned all choke tubes are different in how they handle loads and percentages will vary with type of shot. Look it up.

quote:

Interesting note on the tubes...The Briley SKEET tube has the same constriction as the Remington IMP-MOD-for steel-that came with the gun. No clue how that is going to work.

Simple, steel shoots much tighter than lead, no setback deformation to speak of, and Rem knows this and uses a more open choke to get generally the same percentage patterns using steel. In short, lead patterns will not be as tight as steel patterns using the same lesser constriction chokes. OTOH you can overchoke steel and lose pattern density.

Larger shot has the same problem as steel, you're trying to squeeze marbles down a constriction and if the choke is tight it sometimes deforms shot or squeezes shot column causing lesser patterns and more fliers. All that said, it just depends on what exact choke constriction you're using.

Patterning may be intellectually interesting exercise to you and, if so, go for it. But the most important thing by far is that the shotgun fits and shoots where you're expecting it to, MOUNTED.

As far as the number of loads you have listed, it simply depends on what you're shooting and at what ranges. Decoying ducks or geese don't need hevi-shot. If money is important, take some of both and rely on steel until the sun gets up and the birds shy or similar, then at longer ranges, there is no comparison, Hevi-shot, or similar will smack 'em. Energy on target at distances, trumps density EVERYTIME. Reasonably sized steel shot won't do the job at the distances hevi-shot will, simple physics.

BTW without looking, and from memory, which is not all that good these days, I think many federal and possibly some Texas state hunting areas restrict shot size. You need to check if you're hunting in one of these areas.

quote:

Originally posted by Instructor:
You have given, for me anyway, an overload of information/questions, but if you go to the MEC web site(reloading equip. mfg.) they have a good source of info that may be of help to you.
With a Google search your specific questions/answers can be found I am sure.

I was hoping to get real world experiences from folks on AR. How about selecting one question for which you excell? Referring me to a different website.....not a good show for someone hailing as "INSTRUCTOR".

Thanks Gatogordo! This is more like the kind of response I was looking for. Very informative. The SP10 has a 14-1/2 LOP, which fits a sasquatch like me just fine. The trigger is much heavier than I like and last year that was a problem. My A-5/16 trigger is very light and when I tried to use the SP10 I lost a lot of time and subsequently birds until I wrapped my finger around the trigger and pulled like a Cummins, but that is a different thread.

Texas is one of a handful of states in which I can use shot larger than T. I plan on saving the F shot for Sandhill cranes. Maybe the T shot as well.

The Hevi-shot and the Wingmaster were purchases of circumstance. They were very cheap--so I bought them. The BBB, T, and F were purchased from the dust covered back room of a gunshop in San Antonio--again very cheap.

So as a general rule for ducks or geese over deeks steel until the sun reveals itself then at longer distances the high density shot.....

I think the patterns will be interesting. I hope they do not prove to be a waste of time.

Andy

You need to get or do a trigger job on that 10. Shotguns are not rifles, they don't need a really light or tight trigger but it should be reasonable and it sounds like yours is not.

quote:

So as a general rule for ducks or geese over deeks steel until the sun reveals itself then at longer distances the high density shot.....

Well, more or less, but in general, I'm talking about a couple of hours after sunrise when the sun gets bright, shows off all the differences between how real birds look and decoys and when the birds sometimes get more skittish, especially on still days.

Don't forget to tighten choke tubes if you're switching to longer range gunning. A good reason to use doubles, instant choke selection.

Using lead or steel, I shoot IC/IM most of the time in my 101 unless I know it is going to be pass shooting or other LR work or timber shooting which is usually up close and closer. In my gun, IM kills them a looooong ways out. My all time favorite waterfowl loads, no longer made AFAIK, were Federal Premium 1 1/2 ounce buffered copper plated BBs. They killed them close and they killed them far.

Patterning is fun for a little while and then it gets old fast because it is so repetitive and once you've got the general idea, you rarely learn anything that really makes much difference in the field. Head shots for turkeys might be a different situation. If your gun fits well, then a man who has shot a lot can get a really good idea of the effectiveness of a given load by shooting it on game.

drewhenrytnt,
Sorry you did not like my response, merely attempting to point you to a "resource" of value.

Pattern testing is very informative buts sometimes a major pain in the butt. Using butcher or kraft paper targets with a 40 inch circle and an aim point in the center is common. Be sure to have the same "hold" on each test shot. Walking 40 yards to retreive the target gets old fast, especially in the South Texas Sun. Counting the hits in the circle for an idea of pattern density gets old fast too.
Probably just as important is the pattern density with respect to point of aim. Mounting the gun the same and correctly for every shot is very important.

Using a 4X8 sheet of plywood you can put up a couple of targets at a time and by using two shots with each choke/load combination you will have a better ideal of how the gun patterns. I personally like to have the center of the target about 4 feet above the ground.

The many answers here are very good. My suggestion is to take one guage/firearm at a time/range session and test with the shot/loads you will be using. The range you test at depends on what you will be usually hunting and with what shot type and size shot (steel, lead, bismuth, heavy shot, etc.) Using the differnt chokes can provide execellent info and just may provide some suprises. I usually use 40 yds as a standard test range for 12 bore lead & bismuth) with more open chokes such as skeet, IC I some times test at 20 & 30 yds. to check the load/pattern. With my 10 b using bismuth and buffered shot I test at 40, 50 & 60 yds with differnt chokes.
If you plan on doing much pass shooting beyond 40 yds. this type of patterning gives you a better idea if the pattern can hold up assuming the pattern can be centered on the passing target while hunting.

To remove some variables I some times shoot using a step ladder to rest my arm on without allowing the shotgun to touch any part of the ladder. My ladder is about 5 feet high so I can rest the shooting pad on top and place my hand between the pad and shotgun forearm/barrel.

The other suggestion I can offer is to not rush this testing- plan on taking time to do it as throughly as you can. Take notes after each shot. I sometimes mark the butcher paper target with a magic marker (permanet is better, just in case of rain) then count pellets holes and figure pattern % at home. Use a measuring tape or range finder to mark the ranges.

If handloading count the number of pellets in a load and record it then use this # when figuring % of the pellets in the pattern.

Using a 30 inch circle is standard.

You are wise to do the patterning!

Careful with patterning, it can become an obsession! If you can find a copy of Dr. A.C. Jones book 'Sporting Shotgun Performance' it will answer about all of your questions, or at least give you a good start. Dr. Jones really debunks a lot of the 'common knowledge' that is out there about shotgun patterns. Patterning a 10 ga. can get to be a real chore for sure.
C.G.B.

Gato,

Federal loads 1-1/2oz BB @1450. I am unable to tell if they are plated and/or buffered.

Remington offers a similar load in their Hypervelocity at a mere 50fps more.

I do need some "normal" steel as most of the stuff I have is kinda exotic. The Federal sells for $9 less per box of 25. I really don't think I'll notice 50fps.

Andy

I was referring to lead BBs.

I did my testing today and it was a real PAIN! I chose to fire shots offhand without the aide of a rest.

50 yards.

chokes tested: Briley-Skeet, IC, and Light Mod.

Loads tested 1-5/8 of F, T, & BBB steel
1-3/4 of WingmastedHD BB, #2
1-3/4oz Hevishot #6

10ga Remington SP-10, 30inch.

Pictures to follow as soon as I have pellet counts and other data sorted out.

Someone please send me an ice pack for my shoulder.....I also fired 20rnds from the bench 300RUM 180gr Accubonds at over 3300fps.......