I bought this 16ga sxs for 37.50 at the local pawn shop as a project, but have not been able to identify it. It is new enough to be rated for nitro (which I assume "EPROUVE AUX POUDRES PYROXYLEES" means)and has various markings, though none obviously (to me) state the maker. The chambering is marked inside a sideways omega "16-70" which designates a 2 3/4"shell. There is a proof mark on either barrel of an oval with a crown on its top, inside of which is the letter "E" on top of the letters "LG" with a star beneath. This may be a proof mark.

There is a mark on either barrel and on the receiver which appears to be an underlined rampant lion over the letters "P.V". There are other markings, but they are difficult to describe.

I will need to replace the forend and fix the sears (the firing pins are stuck in the forward position), the chambers are a little dirty but the bores are nearly perfect. There is a sling swivel on the barrel and one on the stock. The barrels have most their bluing and the reciever looks to have had a color case-hardened look. The most unusual thing about it, to me, is that both barrels have the same choke to them.

Does anyone know what I have? I have not taken the action off the stock yet to see what is going on in there, but will be doing so quickly.

[ 09-13-2003, 21:15: Message edited by: 45LCshooter ]

It may be Belgian, not French... That it has no maker's mark may mean that it was imported for some hardware store/chain...

I would be tickled if it were Belgian, as I am a big fan of the FN FAL. I just never thought of it. I am fairly new to shotgunning. Can anyone reccomend a good reference and source for parts. I am blessed with lots of patience and little to do in the evenings, so I figured it would be an inexpensive gunsmithing project. Fitting the metal pieces for the forearm seems like it will the toughest part.

Good news

I found this in Official Guide to Gunmarks, third edition, by Robert H. Balderson

I can't draw it, but here is a description.

Oval with crown on top with E over LG over * "Belgian proof mark for definitive proof from 1893"

Lion on hind legs facing right over underline with the letters PV below
"Belgian proof mark on rifle barrels since 1924"

The book says rifle - may be a generic term for barrel.
I also found the same Lion over "E.C" "Belgian voluntary proof mark for smokeless powder since 1891"

Belgian proof marks - proabably a Guild gun.

If you find any ohter marks, post them and I will try to find them. There are are also some double gun Forums that may have more information. Start at www.doublegun.com and look for links.

[ 09-14-2003, 17:34: Message edited by: trigger ]

Thanks Trigger!

You described the lion that is on the shotgun, I was using the heraldic terms.... Dating it as recent as 1924, I am more confident in the steel, though I will still have it checked out. I am almost certain the reason that it is not cocking is because there is no forend to engage the mechanism.

It has been suggested to me that a Savage 311 forend may be fitted, and the schematics I have seen seem to suggest that it would... I have more detailed drawings of several different drawings coming from Numrich. I have seen 12 and 20 ga forends available, I think the 20 may work: this shotgun looks somwhat dainty next to my Baikal, but not nearly as fine as the Lefever down at the shop.

These marks most probably mean that the firearm is of Belgian origin and proofed at the official Liege armory. PV stands for smokeless powder proofed, by the way. I guess there should be in some place the maker�s name It�s most unusual a nameless shotgun of some quality.
Good luck

Not really, ancient Belgian & brandless shotguns were quite current and range in quality from "pot metal" to best quality (NB : you won't hesitate long to identify the latter, just from the looks of it). The big prominent gunmakers (which were numerous in days gone by) had highly skilled craftsmen working under contract and it was common practice among these to work "after hours" (often using their employer's "surplus" raw material). Putting one's name on a gun built under these circumstances would have been asking too much

Thanks again for the interest and the history.
I have been scouring all the schematics that i can get my hands on (to find a forend which might be fitted) and it appears that I might can enlist an H&R/Rossi Squire forend. I have ordered the forend iron from Numrich to measure...

Saturday, I plan to take the shotgun to work and get some photos. This certainly seems to be a shotgun of some quality, as the barrel-to-frame fit is tight. The blue on the barrels is nice but the "color case hardened" finish on the frame is worn.

Thanks again for the interest and the history.
I have been scouring all the schematics that i can get my hands on (to find a forend which might be fitted) and it appears that I might can enlist an H&R/Rossi Squire forend. I have ordered the forend iron from Numrich to measure...

Saturday, I plan to take the shotgun to work and get some photos. This certainly seems to be a shotgun of some quality, as the barrel-to-frame fit is tight when closed but pivots open almost effortlessly. The blue on the barrels is nice but the "color case hardened" finish on the frame is worn.

Sorry, meant to edit, not to quote.

[ 09-25-2003, 10:44: Message edited by: 45LCshooter ]