I've recently come into possession of a couple of German side-by-sides, and am looking for any information.

Both appear to have modern, non-Damascus barrels, sling swivels, external hammers and double, non-selective triggers.

The first seems to be the higher-quality piece. It appears to be 16-gauge (I'm not sure if it has 2 3/4 or shorter chambers), with a good-quality walnut stock that incorporates a raised, rifle-style cheekpiece and European-typical splinter forend.. Barrels are approximately 30 inches. All metalwork is covered with floral/scroll engraving. The manufacturer is listed as "H Scherping Hof-Buchsenmacher Hannover". At the breech end of the underside of the barrels are the following marks, beginning toward the muzzle-end and working toward the breech:

some sort of letter or symbol, difficult to discern--it might be the stylized initials of the maker, or might not, Choke 16.4/17 (the foregoing fraction featured a horizontal, rather than slanted, line, A, another stylized symbol, H, an arrow pointing toward the breech-end,a diamond containing the number 16 above the letter C, a crowned oval containing the letter E above LG above a star.

The other barrel bore similar markings, except that "Choke 16.4/17" was replaced by the sole number "17"


The second shotgun seemed to be a lower grade. It was a 20-gauge with no maker stamp. It did bear the number "2 L 3414". Barrel markings were identical. However, the wood seemed to be of a lower, less-figured grade, the cheekpiece was absent, there was less engraving (although both sides featured gamebird pictures, one of pheasants, the other of partridge), etc.

Both guns are in surprisingly good shape considering their heritage (liberated during the war, then wrapped up in rags and stored in the attic until last month). There's no sign of rust, and they lock up tight. The springs in both locks of both guns seem to work, although one firing pin will probably require a new spring (it doesn't seem as if it would rebound after being struck by the hammer, but rather slides back and forth without restraint).

Right now, I'm trying to 1) figure out any information I can, 2) learn what they're worth and 3) determine whether they're safe to shoot and, ultimately, 4) decide whether I want to sell them to a collector, etc. (assuming that a market exists) or take them out for pheasants and rabbits for nostalgia's sake.

Any information would be appreciated.

Whiteeagle:

The only point I may be able to help with is that the 16 gauge may have 2 and 9/16" chambers. (2 and 3/4" is more commonly American chambering. A guage is needed here. (Also have a gunsmith look at the taper into the barrels)

The presence of hammers raises caution flags with me. It speaks of an early turn of the century shotgun. Please remember that even if the barrels are "fluid steel" that was in its infancy and does not compare to modern fluid steel. Also, smokeless powder was in its infancy then, too, and modern smokeless develops considerably higher pressures. (Most definitely, I would not use any "high base" loads. Upland loads might be OK but I would want to have a good gunsmith give his OK even then)

"Old" doubles from the heyday of companies like Boss, Parker, Fox, Lefevre, L.C. Smith are to be treasured and will still give good service ( I still wouldn't shoot high base loads out of many a double made as late as the 1920s) - but they came 20 years and more after what I suspect was the era of your doubles.

Whiteeagle:

I guess what I really want to say is -walk carefully. A shotgun tends to blow somewheres near the point where you fingers are clutching that splinter fore end. (It's why taper into the barrel is so important) I am 74 and was shooting many an "old timer" over 60 years ago. Even then, the watchword was -CAUTION. Please don't even think of shooting high base loads from those guns. I have personally seen beautiful old shotguns -with a six inch long split and peeling of a barrel after someone tried to use a rifled slug or No.2s in it. Loss of some fingers might be just minimum damage. It's not worth the risk. Hang them up on a wall in honorable retirement.

Gerald--

Thanks for the thoughts.

Sounds like I need to find a collector--if any such folks exist--and move on.

Don't know where you are in New York, but if you're downstate and know of any dealers in this sort of firearm, I'd be glad to hear of them.

Whiteeagle:

I am downstate (Long Island) I have the feeling you need a conscientious dealer to talk to. and I would now recommend that you get in touch with Holland & Holland, also in Manhattan. Of course, you know the name. What I am thinking of is that you might have a very valuable pair of guns that some collector would pay for. Holland & Holland people think in big numbers. Get a hold of someone and lay it out. He may shoot it down immediately and tell you that the guns are worth little. On the other hand, you just don't know at this point. (It's like having some old diamond rings and now you need to know who to talk to. Why not start at the top?)

Thanks again. I'm on Long Island as well, and appreciate the local guidance.

I have shot old side hammer guns with low base shells in the past and had no problems. Of course those of us who are still here are the ones who never had a problem!

I would get expert advice. A barrel with fluid steel barrels should be just fine to shoot one would think.

Chambers marked 65 may be the short European length and 70 is our standard length shell.