I see that 00 Buck Shot (new to me) is not the only Buck Shot load available today. What should one pick as a personal defence load?

For defense bird shot is correct as it will not penetrate walls as easily as buck shot or bullets from a rifled arm.

Before you go any further with this you must read Massad Ayoobs "The Truth About Self Protection"

This is a very serious subject.

Federal is making what it calls a "Personal Defense" load for 12 and 20 gauges. (#2's)

Vman - Assuming you are using a 12 gauge, you only have 9 pellets with 00. "Double Aught" would be my last choice, frankly, and I've shot a lot of it.

Which pellet is best for you really depends on your situation, or the scenario you think you might use the gun in self defense.

I ran some tests years ago on just what destructive things you can do with various pellet loadings...and I'm convinced that the best range of pellets lies between #4 and BB.

All are vicious. It just depends how "vicious" you want to be and what situation you see the need.

Simply jacking a round into the chamber on a pump shotgun is enough to win most arguments. Anyone that presses the attack on you after THAT warning signal is crazy and needs to be shot!

Vman,

I have been out of the lawenforcement business for about 6 yrs. now, but I can tell you this. When we went into a situation where the pistol was not going to be sufficient, we grabbed our 870's stuffed alternately with 00buck and slugs. That was mainly used for outdoor conditions and rarely were they used indoors. If I was going to use a shotgun indoors it would be a shot barrel, open choke and an extended mag tube. I would keep it stuffed with FACTORY light trap or skeet loads and fell very well protected!

Elk Country

[ 10-15-2002, 00:10: Message edited by: Elk Country ]

Beside slugs OO has the best stopping record I have a 870 with a short barrel that has choke tubes in it. Any body with in 30 yards with be hurting. With the standard open choke barrel under 20 yards is preferred. Fine shot is ok if really close under 10 yards other wise not enough pentration. If I am going to use slugs I would prefer a rifle over a shot gun a good AR type or mini 14.

Federal makes a low recoil #4 Buckshot load in 12ga. Give it a try at the range. I like the low recoil loads since it gives my wife a "psychological" advantage of not thinking she's going to get pounded.

Bob

I know if you shoot just about any type critter with 1 1/4 oz. of #4's inside of 12 yds.,,,,There's usually not much left thats worth taking home.It ought to make a dandy home defence shell.Maby #2's in the winter months when they're clothing might be a bit thicker.If I ever catch someone in my house,,I'd sooner beat them to a pulp

Just for fun I shot a load of 00 in a Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip. WOW, did that hurt! My wrist was sore for a week. It did ventilate the burn barrel quite nicely, though! The 00 is put away and bird shot is kept near the gun now.

[ 10-18-2002, 03:32: Message edited by: Dasmoofler ]

We carry #4 Buck in our 870's at work. I believe the #4B has 27 pellets. Low recoil loads are available.

I have 2 shotguns that I have run numerous types of shells through. The first is a Winchester 1200 stainless marine that I have had for about 20 years.It has a wood stock with a reasonably soft rubber recoil pad and is quite pleasant to shoot until you move up to 3" 000 and 00 buck or slugs. With these rounds at short range the result is devastating but I wouldn't recommend touching them off in the confines of a home or worse, an apartment or condo. I have, but have not yet tried, the new Federal 2 3/4" tactical loads that are called "reduced recoil". These should be easier on the shoulder but I can't comment on how they compare to the stouter loads for stopping power. From my experience I would agree with the other posters that anything from a #4 turkey load to BB would be terminal/lethal to a human body at normal self defense ranges (don't count on just wingin'im). My other shotgun is a Benelli M1 super 90 tactical with ghost ring sights. I love this gun, However, it kicks hard with the heavy 3" loads and although it cycles and shoots VERY fast you would be back on target much quicker with the lighter loads... assuming that would be necessary. All of this aside, Pecos ,is as usual right on target, cuz anyone who knowingly proceeds toward the business end of a 12 guage scattergun has some serious issues!

I go with the bird shot crew.

If someone is close enough to justify shooting them, #4 or #6 will do the job without killing your neighbors.

And then you can tell the judge "I grabbed my rabbit gun out the closet. I just wanted to stop him, not kill him."

Buckshot is a lot harder to explain.

PHC had a good discussion about the myths of 00 buck in, I believe, "Maneaters". In this book he talks about testing a number of loads for follow-up of DG( Leopards & Lion) and comes to the conclusion that #1 buck gives fully 1/3 more grain weight for the same powder charge as 00 due to pellet size.
Now if I was looking for an all-around indoor/outdoor single load that would be it based on the numbers. I keep #7 light bird loads near the gun now for indoor purposes so I don't have to worry about over penetration as I live in a dense residential area.

I load my Scattergun Technologies 870 with two rounds of #8 then two 0f #4 buck then finished off with 2 - 3" mag slugs. I have had some problems with critters getting into the barn. The #8 gets their attention, the #4 buck will poke little holes in their car, van or them. If they come back or stick around the slugs will end it. This year I took a deer with the same gun. A 60 yard shot. She was looking at me head on. I hit her in the neck and it put her on her hind legs then down she went. The slug broke her neck. I didn't wont to make the chest shot, you lose to much meat.

How about good old rock salt , carpet tacks ,and broken glass.

Speaking of Mas Ayoob, he used to say "#1 is #1." He was speaking of outdoors, I believe. Your own circumstances indoors might change this a bit.

just remember,use factory loads only,the jurors seem to frown on home-brewed super lethal loads specially made by us "evil handloaders" to maim,mutilate and kill the lowlife that may be trying to kill you or your loved ones.it`s a strange world out there when you can be sued or even locked up just for protecting the things that belong to you.rock salt etc may just be your ticket to paying some low life`s medical bills for the rest of his\her lives.sure reality sucks,but shoot to kill not to support the crooks. damn sue-happy world we live in now.

I have had bad luck with small buck on feral dogs and would not reccommend anything smaller unless for use in a house with neighbors behind the next layer of particle board and sheetrock.

IF I carry a scatter-piece at all, it is a SxS .410 that I have drawfiled the action round on, shortened the barrels, poacherstocked(skeletonized the buttstock of. Been done since flint fowling piece days, and still makes sense.), and installed Colonial screw-in choke tubes on.

My choice for a ludicrously small bore gun(to most of you), is due to age, arthritus, and general deterioration, and the fact that anything I want to shoot with a shotgun can be got with the .410 and the right load.

I have loaded 4 .375 roundballs as well as 3 .395 roundballs, for a heavy buck load that will out penetrate even #00.
Since there are bear and mtn. lion around here, a couple of these in a pocket are a comfort.

In most guns, they pattern so tightly as to maybe be refferred to as a "group" rather than a pattern. (3" or less at 25 yds. is typical.)

If I was defending a house in town, I'de load BB or T shot, or just use factory #4's. (Whether it was .410 or larger bore.)

Years ago I went the other direction and loaded ten .375 roundballs in 3 1/2" 10 gauge.
I wouldn't shoot such a load off my shoulder for
a fifty $ bill these days.

Dave .32-20

Lots of good advise given on this subject. Indoors, number 4 or BB will do the job. Like Big Belly stated, thought has to be given to what will happen after the shot is fired.

Some low life lawyer our there will try to make the "Evil Gun Owner" libel for protecting his home and family. Shouldn't have to do that you know. After all, there are cops are on every street corner just waiting for something to do!

Bob M.

I've got a 12 ga. coach gun, with #6 and a slug within reach. I figure if I doubled up, I'd have plenty of time to chamber two more.

IF some one brakes in my house some one is gone to die me or him I would go with 00Buck shot and rember if he kicks shoot agane a dead man cant sue.