I'm not really a shotgun guy so I'm seeking some input. I want to get a .410 or 20 ga. shotgun for my grandchildren. I will be for small game, mostly squirrels, no clays. I already have a cut down .22 and a .243 for them so slugs aren't really an issue, but interchangable barrels seems to offer long term flexability. I don't want a single break action because the light wt. means more recoil and I don't like the way the muzzle gets waved around when they're loaded. I'm leaning toward a pump or auto. I may get it ported. I want to start my 7 year old grandson on it and use it with the granddaughter later so it needs an adjustable stock like some of the Mossbergs. If a shot gun can use the 3" shells can it also do the shorter ones?
What are some of my options? Comments? Recommendations?

Remington 1100 Lady's/Youth 20ga. is the first thing that comes to mind. Cheap enough to buy, inexpensive stocks are available along w/different barrels as the kids get bigger.

I would not recommend a .410 for a first gun, a .410 is an expert gun.

You might also consider a 28ga. 1100 as well.

If they can handle the .243, a 20 guage should be no problem. I was around 10 when I got a Win mod 12 and did not have to cut the stock. If you are going to cut a stock I'd get a second stock and keep the original. Doesn't sound like you'd need a 3". I do have a Win mod 42 (.410) and shots do have to be more precise.

I am leaning toward a 20 ga. Mossberg 500 Bantam Turkey what's it. It does weigh a bit more, but it has sights more like what the boy is used to, various chokes and the same adjustable stock as the 500 Bantam Mini what's it. It should be much more versatile over time. He'll also think the camo pattern on the furniture is way cool. I'm still eager for input.

Depending on how much you want to spend.....

Remington 1100 with an extra youth stock

beretta 390 or 391 with a youth stock

Benelli montefeltro 20 ga get an extra stock and cut it down

Buying an extra stock allows them to grow into the gun, and you will only need one.

Get some light 7/8 of an ounce target or small game loads, and they will be good to go.

A .410 is not a beginers gun, but rather an experts gun.

Also if by the sights you mean the shotgun has sights like a rifle, ABSOLUTELY dont get that, rifle sight will make him AIM and not POINT, therefore greatly reducing their ability to shoot a shotgun, and teaching bad habits.

The gun has two beads vs. rifle sites.

I started out as a youth with single shot .410 shotgun and shot ducks, pheasants, doves, quail, etc. with that shotgun for two years before I "graduated" to a Browning Auto-5 12 gauge. With that said, I would recommend starting them with a 20 gauge pump shotgun. Browning has a great BPS, bottom ejection pump shotgun.

For youngsters most people think that the weight of the gun is the most important thing. Actually, although reasonably light weight is important, it is the overall (not just stock) length of the gun which is a problem for small-framed shooters. A gun with a long action like a pump or auto, even when it has a very short barrel, is still front-heavy for kids with their short arms.

That's why I started my grandson on a small-framed 28 gauge Over/Under with 26" barrels. Its overall length is shorter than a youth model Rem 870, and it is lighter, much more manageable, and points and shoots like a real bird gun. It is a shame to handicap a kid with a clunker of a gun when you are trying to teach him or her the art of wingshooting. You wouldn't put up with shooting a shotgun which doesn't fit you, is muzzle-heavy, and swings like a crowbar, would you? Neither should a kid.

Besides overall length, the stock needs to be as straight as possible for a youngster. They have smaller, thinner faces and therefore need a higher comb. The worst thing in the world in regard to recoil and mis-sighting is to have your head bobbing around in the air in order to be able to look straight down the barrel.

And regardless of what gun you ultimately choose, for god's sake don't port the barrel. Muzzle blast is a much more intimidating (and physically damaging) factor than recoil. It's usually not recoil that causes a flinch to develop, but muzzle blast. Porting turns the mild report of a small gauge with a low-pressure load into a fire-belching howitzer. Teach the kid to take the proper stance and mount the gun firmly to his/her shoulder and recoil will be no issue.

A lot of the so-called youth models kick like hell. I bought my son a "youth model" BPS in 20 gauge. He didn't like to shoot it. I couldn't understand. Finally I shot it and it was about like a 12 gauge with 3" loads. I quickly understood why he didn't like it. Don't know why it kicked like it did, but it did.

Ended up with a little Frianchi 2 3/4" auto. Was extremely light weight and recoil was negligible.

Agree a .410 isn't a kid's gun, although that's what I started with.

I've got a Winchester 1300 youth model in 20ga. It's a great little gun. 22" barrel, youth length stock and the forearm is set further back than on the adult models to facilitate the shorter reach of a youngster when working the slide. I still use it from time to time quail hunting because it handles so well. My 6yr old has shot it a few times and the recoil didnt bother him, but it was a little heavy.

I found a pristine 20 ga Mod 12 some years back (blueing and action were impeccable). Only problem was the stock was cut off and it had a ugly poly choke on it (common for the era). I had the poly cut off and had Briley chokes installed. Barrel is about 22".
Heavy enough to absorb some recoil and short enough for a lady or youngster to handle. This little gun gets used a lot.

Remington made at one time a 20 gauge 870 called the LT-20 which was a shorter barreled and English style stocked gun. I bought one for my wife in the 1980's and have lent it to many children to shoot over the years. It seems to handle much better than her friends youth model 20 ga 870. If you can find one, I think you will be good to go.

The 28 Gauge would be a great go between Remington makes them in 1100's and 870's. I bought my wife a 28 Ga. wingmaster a couple of years ago and thats all she will shoot. I have a 20 Gauge Rem LT 20 and my wife like's and shoots the 28 Ga. alot better.

20 ga non auto. I don't think the 410 is large enough. Often people I've seen that started with an auto tend to waste the first shot

Nothing really wrong with a single shot to start. Gets them in the habit of making the first shot count.

Here is what I bought for my son last year. Started as a wood youth 870, since he is still really young I chose an adjustable Knoxx Spec Ops stock that will allow him to grow with the gun. I've added ghost ring fiber optics sights, a $5 dollar closeout Mossy Oak forearm (Remington's Website) and one of the last Remington made turkey chokes that are compatible with HTL shot.

Remington M-1100 in 20 gauge. You can have him use it initially as a signle shot if that feels important as a way to start. with choke tubes its mucho versatile, perhaps adding a rifled barrel later on for deer/hogs/bear will be of of interest. If he really likes it, as he grows, he can buy a longer stock.

I have gone through this with both of my kids over the last few years, and I think owned at least one of every youth gun out there. A few thoughts:

- Buy a 20 gauge. A kid will have a very hard time hitting anything with a .410. Probably would wound a lot of live game as well
- Buy a pump. One of the keys to my kids learning was the Fiochii trainer shells with are lighter 20 gauge loads. They won't cycle a semi auto and kids struggle with operating a semi auto action
- It really has to be a kid size gun front to back. We ended up liking the Mossberg 550s the best. They are not the slightest bit fancy but are the lightest of the choices which turns out to matter a lot. The kids can't swing it at all well if it is too heavy. The youth 1100 that I bought for my son he finally likes (semi auto is now cool when you are 13) but he is also 5'7" 165 pounds and can shoot a .375 H&H reasonably as well today). It is heavy as hell

Some good advice here.

A good indicator is if the child, (or young adult for that matter) has to arch their back when mounting the gun it is probably too long and front heavy.

A bit of weight is good to mitigate felt recoil but I would also go with the cut down 20 or 28 bore with light loads.

K

A .410 is actually, IMHO, from a Brit viewpoint probably the WORST choice for a youth after a 3" magnum 12!

Simply to use a .410 you have to be pretty competent with a shot gun in the first place as to get any sort of a killing pattern requires a tight choke and a tight choke then demands very little error on the part of the shooter.

Also once grown out of a .410 unless shooting static rats or squirrels is then pretty much left back in the gunroom unused and unloved.

My advice would be to get a sweet 28 gauge that will kill out of all proportion to its 5/8" of shot even though a .410 Magnum carries that same weight.

And that 28 gauge can then serve as a first gun and as a gun for use sixty years on as a last gun for those now old and infirm!

Also I'd say that they'll learn more reloading for the 28 gauge than they will for the .410.

.410 is too often touted as the "ideal" youth gun. It isn't. It is a very specialised gauge that requires the shooter to be a good shot.

Any less a shot will very quickly become disappointed with its misses or lack of clean kills. Get those "kids" a 28 gauge!

Oh! And if you do have a gunsmith cut the stock down keep the part you cut off in a safe place. Then later it can simply be put back on with glue and dowelling.

And if you get a pump or a self-loader use a plug in that magazine to make it a single shot. That way it is either breech block forward and LOADED or breech block open and UNLOADED.