I am looking for a 12g SXS shotgun with two triggers and a pistol grip stock. I currently have a Fox but there is a slight crack in the wrist and would hate to have it break as it is somewhat of a collectors item. I am looking for something that I can put LOTS of rounds through because I have a Double Rifle that will be ready in a couple months and want to get a shotgun to practice with because 500NE ammo is pretty expensive and the DR will be my first double triggered firearm besides the Fox which I haven't shot very much.

So basically I am looking for suggestions on where to look for a 12g (preferably 3") SXS with double triggers and a pistol grip stock that I can practice my form on (read: lots of rounds) as well as take wingshooting.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

I've been looking at these. www.sabatti.com

Bulldog,

I like the pistol grip stock with double triggers, too, but be aware that this configuration is "wrong" for purists.

That said, there are a lot of Merkels out there in this configuration (shotguns and double rifles). In a new gun, you have to special order them this way, but it used to be the standard config.

Steve

People seem pretty happy with the Beretta Silverhawks. I don't remember if you can easily get two triggers.

For the most part a double rifle and a SxS shotgun are such different animals I doubt it will scratch that itch for you.

Kyler

Bulldog563:

Congrats on owning a Fox and your desire to preserve it. What does puzzle me (and maybe I'm reading your post wrong) is that you want to use a 12 ga. SxS as some kind of practice for a 500 NE.

Don't get offended but I'm not sure if you may not be mixing up two very different firearms - simply because both are DB. As far as I can see you could shoot a 12 ga. SxS from now to Doomsday and it would do little to help you with a 500 NE DB. It's true that some people need adjustment to not having a "single sighting plane" on a double barreled shotgun -in shooting at flying targets. That will never be a problem for you on using the 500 NE, of course. So, just what use would the 12 ga. be for "practice"? If you are concerned about the "two trigger' feature of the DG double and want to develop "muscle memory" that lets you slip one finger easily back to the rear trigger (without even thinking about it) then why not invest in having some squib loads made up for the 500 so that you can practice quick one-two shots economically? (To be honest, if you can afford a 500 NE double and the trip to where you can use it - then why not spend the money and practice, practice, practice with full loads?) Just my thoughts.

You guys are right that they are two very different firearms and to learn a double rifle I should just shoot the double rifle. I mainly wanted to get used to the double triggers/develope muscle memory until my DR is ready and figured that a SXS 12g would be the best way to do this. I will make up some squib loads for the 500 but I will not get the rifle for a few months now.

But, I have also wanted a nice SXS for birds and thought that this would be a good excuse to get one. So now that my secret is out what do you guys think? Anywhere in particular I should look? Any other advice appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by kweber:
I've been looking at these. www.sabatti.com

Keep on looking at Sabattis but don't buy any! I bought one some years ago, and it was the worst piece of junk I ever owned. Bad quality parts badly put together.

The Beretta 470 mentioned above is a fine gun, but heavy and too neutral in balance - personally I prefer to have the point of balance slightly closer to the muzzle than the Beretta has.

My own shotgun is a pre-war german Sauer, simple but well balanced and high quality. If you can find some such guns, you would perhaps get what you're looking for.



Fritz

I had an Arrieta 570 put together that suits my need for high volume shooting very well. It has the double triggers, nice slender semi-beaver tail fore end, semi pistol grip, and "rounded" action. I use it for my primary sporting clays gun now and I shoot 3-4 times per week. I don't shoot for score, I shoot to be proficient enough to keep my German shorthairs happy come bird season. Turns out my scores are comparable to those I used to shoot with my o/u dedicated clays guns.

None the worse for wear going into my 3rd season with it now and looks as good as new still locking up tight as a drum and ejecting hulls too far back when I fail to grab them.

Good stout gun that you can usually find around used in good condition on the web and dealers racks.

Good luck

Mike

If your interest is in shooting for the purpose of conditioning and you want a lot of proper blasting under all conditions to develop fingerwork, get a Baikal. I have three. Two 12 and one 20 whose stock I cut to straight.

Solid and cheap. You can modify the front sight with one of the bright plastic types. As for the finger on the right trigger problem, I know what you mean. Shoot! Then mentally stumble around with a second shot and stick your finger in the wrong place or even pull the front trigger a second time. One you get past that the issue is finding the second trigger at all. In fact I think the rear trigger should be on the right and the front on the left so the movement back is more natural for a right hander.

This double trigger plus auto safety business takes some time to mechanically perfect and it is good mental conditioning. The mental reach for the second trigger will make the physical reach that much more coordinated.

the cz's might be just what you're looking for

Bulldog, fix the Fox and shoot it. If it is somewhat of a collector item like you say, it will not hurt to fix the crack. And if done properly it will likely be inviisible and stronger than before it developed.

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
I am looking for a 12g SXS shotgun with two triggers and a pistol grip stock. I currently have a Fox but there is a slight crack in the wrist and would hate to have it break as it is somewhat of a collectors item. .

Look at it this way. You got the Fox at some discount because of the crack at the wrist. If you leave it this way, you will sell it at a discount. If you make a small investment now and have it fixed properly, you will sell it at a premium.

The Fox is a hot item in the restoration area right now, along with the Parkers. This is mainly because people are seeing the prices for a new Fox. So they buy an old Fox and have it restored, perhaps adding a new stock and some engraving. No one is taking a beating doing this or the volume would not be so high. Turnbull, Kearcher and a host of others are making a living on this trade.

quote:

I am looking for something that I can put LOTS of rounds through because I have a Double Rifle that will be ready in a couple months and want to get a shotgun to practice with because 500NE ammo is pretty expensive and the DR will be my first double triggered firearm besides the Fox which I haven't shot very much.

Congrats on the new DR. Are you currently a high volume Trap, Skeet or Sporting Clay shooter? They all use very low pressure loads to avoid the recoil. If not, even the best will eventually develop a problem. You can pick up a new CZ Bobwhite in 12ga, it has 3" chambers. Or you could pick up a used 10ga. If you really need 3" chambers, then you going after either turkey or waterfowl. Either way, you will want 30" or 32" barrels. Get a set of Chambermates or Lil Skeeters and shoot 12ga shells in it. A used spanish 10ga sxs goes for under $500.

quote:

So basically I am looking for suggestions on where to look for a 12g (preferably 3") SXS with double triggers and a pistol grip stock that I can practice my form on (read: lots of rounds) as well as take wingshooting.

Your form for using the DR will not be the same as with a shotgun. A DR is aimed, a shotgun is pointed and swung. But if you just have to, you have to. It should take you all of 30 seconds to learn to use 2 triggers. If it takes much more than that, leave the DR home and bring the Mauser instead.
If all this is just an excuse to get a new sxs, which is what I suspect, then good for you. Try out http://www.gunshop.com

Customstox:

As an old (retired) shotgunner who well remembers Fox I was interested to read your reply about repair to the stock. Frankly, when I was a kid (I'm 76) it was treated that the stock had to be replaced for a crack at the point of what the poster called the "wrist" (and I called the "grip") (Obviously that's not what is wanted here - when I was young no one realized how cherished a Fox would become -50 years later - and I remember a Fox Sterlingworth in the house!) It might be useful to other Fox owners to mention something of what can be done nowadays to preserve an old stock. I think your expertise would really be a help.

Yes, definitely. I would also be interested to hear the details on how a crack is repaired.

Who would be the best person to have fix the crack in my Fox?

quote:

Originally posted by bulldog563:
Yes, definitely. I would also be interested to hear the details on how a crack is repaired.

Who would be the best person to have fix the crack in my Fox?

The Stock Doctor at http://cap-n-ball.com/fulton/ is a good choice.

Sorry, I have not looked back in a while. I would recommend the "other" stock doctor, Dennis Earl Smith. He is an excellent stockbuilder himself and has a wealth of experience. Bulldog, and he just lives north of you in Oregon. Tell him I said hi. He is a really good guy and will treat you well.

Here is a link to his web site.

gerry375, the big item that separates those days when you (and I - only about 15 years behind you) were young is the glues they have now, mainly epoxies. A good glued joint now is tougher than the original wood. I have soaked cracks in actone to get out any gun oils and use whitening to remove excess oils and blown epoxy in with air and then glued the stock, clamping it with surgical tubing. It sure isn't rocket science.

Customstox:

Thanks for your informative reply. I smiled to myself on reading your post because it reminded me about what progress has been made in glue since I was young. I knew about progress in glue - I just had forgotten to make the connection with shotgun stocks! (Fact)

Bulldog,

At an S.C.I. convention a couple of years back a guy gave a talk on using a SXS shotgun for trainig for a double rifle.

He recommended buying an inexpensive shotgun, have express sights put on it and shoot slugs. One of my partners did this while he was waiting for his Searcy and used a .410 and bought a case of cheap slugs. He felt the practice did well for him.

I may suggest that you try the same idea, have the Fox repaired and use it as it was designed for and move forward.

I on the other hand use Butch's reduced lead bullet load in my .500 NE and that is how I do my general practice.

Either way should work for you, I just prefer using the very gun I'm going to hunt with. BTW, the reduced lead loads are very inexpensive to load and shoot. The brass lasts forever, you use little powder and the bullets are cheap; even the good ones.

Good luck with your decision.

Cheers,

Sam

quote:

So basically I am looking for suggestions on where to look for a 12g (preferably 3") SXS with double triggers and a pistol grip stock that I can practice my form on (read: lots of rounds) as well as take wingshooting.

I just picked up a real nice new CZ/HUGLU Amarillo SxS 20. Pistol grip, 2 triggers 20" barrel. This is the coach gun version and it is available in 12 gauge too.