Well folks I have a small question to ask of ya, I'm pretty much a rifle guy and am not real familiar with the newer offerings of shotguns hence the question. I would like to find a side-by-side 28ga that is of a hunting grade, I mean if I'm crossing a fence and it slips off and hits the ground and scratches the wood mothers for miles around will not have to cover their childrens ears. I have a couple of 12's and my childhood friend the single shot 410 that even though I'm over 30 seems to spend more time in the dove fields than the 12's and the couple of 28's I have shot fit the bill of what I'm looking for so do you fella's have any suggestions? I'd appreciate any help you can offer. Later,

Kirk

Take a look at the CZ sxs's, or their upgraded versions, the DeHaan shotguns (www.dhshotguns.com). HTH, Dutch.

Ouch! I may have to just see if I can't find an 870 in 28ga. I didn't know the side by sides were that much, if it slid down a fence mothers WOULD have to cover the childrens ears. I just don't use a shotgun that much to see spending that kind of money on something that would spend more time in the safe than the field, if I shot a shotgun more it would not be too bad a price for what your getting. Later and thanks for the suggestion.

Kirk

The words cheap and side by side usually don't fit in the same sentence. The Spartan line by Reminton are "cheap" decent for the money, but you can still buy 2 870 pumps for the price of one.

Ksmirk:

It seems to me that DuaneinND gave the best advice. If you have your heart set on a 28 DB (and as a very old DB man, I'm with you!) why not do some exploring? The advice you've gotten is correct - no good DB is cheap. But why not consider paying half as much again for an old GOOD NAME double that a good gunsmith can fix up again? Sure, it will cost you money and there will be no "steals". (Did you ever get a "steal" on a used car lot?. Same thing) You will have a nice double. (I watched a lady in Ontario who regularly shot ruffed grouse,{the real kind, not spruce grouse} with a 28 ga. It always depressed me using a 12! Don't give up on finding a double. (Gun shows, Shotgun News? Look everywheres)

The stench of cheap will stick to your fingers every time you'll touch a "crude" sxs.

Sure, you can buy a Stoeger, but you won't ENJOY it.

Here's a thought. Mow 5 yards for a summer after your regular job, and you can shoot a NICE 28 ga. sxs for the rest of your life.

Or, forget about the 28, and buy a nice 20 or 12 for half the money. JMO, Dutch.

I never said CHEAP! but I think $900 for a shotgun that will be out of the safe for a couple months a year does not sound like it fits what I'm after. I never thought about the idea of finding a sxs needing a little help though! I build my rifles I figure I should be able to work on a shotgun and if not I have a gunsmith that knows the shotguns pretty well.
Dutch I wish I could mow a few yards for the money but I barely have time to mow my own! averaging 60 hour weeks you would think that the money would not be a big deal but something about Lawyers, Doctors, Ex-wife seem to be kinda depleating the funds! I do like the CZ shotguns and rifles for that fact so if I can't find an old Fox that someone wants $5 at a garage sale I may just wait til next year when all the hell of this seperation thing is over! thanks for the suggestions and ideas fella's Later,

Kirk

Ksmirk,
I would agree with Dutch on the choice of a CZ for your needs. If you are set on a 28, you will not find it in a fixer upper Fox as they did not make their shotguns in that gauge.

Save your money and do your homework, then go to the Tulsa gunshow. If you can't find it there, I'd be surprised. It's the biggest show in the U.S.

Well I guess the doves won't mind getting hit with the 410 again this year, after screwing up my shoulder a couple years ago the 12 is not that much fun to shoot anymore plus it takes all the challenge out of hitting those little grey rockets. Customstox, I didn't know that Fox didn't make a 28ga.! thanks that should save me looking stupid asking for one. Like I said I'm not a big shotgunner but I do know when to ask. lee440, that Tulsa gunshow might be a big one and while it's pretty much the only gunshow I go to anymore I find that I can buy a gun at a store pay tax and still get it cheaper! it's like the dealers are trying to pay for the booth fee on one sale anymore, I might be wrong but even the bullets and reloading supplies have gotten too high, I guess that dang internet is getting to everyone. Oh well fella's thanks for the info. Later,

Kirk

Kirk,
If you go hunt doves and have any thought about shooting quite a bit, I would suggest that you take a look at ammo prices for the 28 also. The going price will raise your eyebrows. You are looking at close to twice the price of 20 gauge ammo. It sounds like funds may a bit of a problem at this time. The 20 gauge can be loaded to 28 ga specs and would not weigh much more. That said, I love a 28 and just recently sold mine. I am looking for another and think I have found one in an older Miroku O/U.

Customstox:

To this old man it was interesting to read your comments about current 28 ga. ammo prices. Over 15 years ago, I used to bring boxes of 28 ga. ammo up to Canada to my lodge owner's wife and remember being slightly shocked at the prices -which were still below Canada prices (after adjustments for currency differences) -and hard to get in Canada anyway. It puzzled me then -and still does. I grew up with a 410 as my first shotgun and just don't remember what the price comparisons were ( We used 2 and 3/4" shells a lot and as I remember they were sold in boxes of 10 and not 25 although I could be wrong about that) I just don't have a recollection that the ammo ran as more expensive than 12 ga. or 16 ga. (The 20 ga. was not particularly widely used when I was very young) Maybe it's an old man's memory failing him. Any thoughts on why 28 ga. factory ammo should cost more. Lack of demand?

Customstox:

To my embarrassment, I see I referred to a 2 and 3/4" inch 410 shell in my previous post. I was asleep at the switch (or having a "senior moment") Of course, I should have said 2 and 1/2" shell.

Kirk, the CZ Bobwhite can be had for around $750 online. Paying shipping and having someone locally with a FFL receive it for you the cost will be no more than $800. Using gun prices of today that is cheap (or should I say inexpensive). In twenty gauge or larger there are tons of guns waiting for a good home. The problem with the smaller guns is there are fewer of them and the line to get a good deal on one is long. Expecting a steal on one probably isn't going to happen. Everyday many people are scouring every source available looking for them. I believe Gerry mentioned something about not enjoying a cheap gun. I agree with that. In my opinion the CZ/DeHaan guns are the best value out there if you want a true twenty-eight gauge gun. A decent spanish make would be the next best value but they are far more costly today than they were just a few years ago. I don't want to offend anyone but I see no reason to shoot a twenty gauge frame gun with twenty-eight gauge barrels. That is what you get with low end guns. Most feel like clubs and offer nothing in reduced size and weight over a twenty gauge. In fact, due to thicker barrel thickness at the chamber to match the fences on the twenty gauge action you almost always end up with a heavier gun than if it had twenty gauge barrels. For the privilege of saying that you are shooting a twenty-eight all you get is more weight and more expensive ammo. It is a poor choice. Best of luck and I hope you do get that twenty-eight. Be patient and get one that you will be happy with. Gerry, Dutch, and Chic have all given you advise I agree with completely.

Gerry375, I trip over what I say often enough myself.


As far as costs it is matter of limited procuction runs of the 28 and .410 from what I understand. The same is true of the 16 ga. They shut down a run to make it and then have to convert the line back to either 20 or 12. Now that may just be a Manufacturing fable to get us to buy the high prices and the product.

I use a 28 quite a bit and its a SXS to boot. That said they arn't cheap by any means. The least expensive one I can think of is a Spanish gun called a Rota and they retail for about $1000. The appear to be a well made gun from the ones I have seen and a friend swears by his.

Ammo is going to increase in cost by about 12% this year. The increased cost of gas therefor trucking probably figures into this quite a bit. 28ga ammo of a premium quality will run about $11.00/box here. I shoot quite a bit of skeet and the 28 is a favorite guage so I load all mine. If you are only going to go through a couple boxes a season than that shouldn't be a factor.

Is that Rota on a 20 or 28 gauge frame? According to Cabela's the Rota 28 gauge is two ounces heavier than the 20 gauge and it is a pound heavier than a 28 gauge CZ. It is also at least a pound heavier than any spanish gun built on a proper frame that I am aware of.

The only thing worse than buying shells for the twenty-eight is buying them for a four-ten. That's why other than some non-toxic waterfowl loads I haven't shot a factory loaded cartridge of any caliber or gauge in nearly two decades.

SH

I'm not sure of the frame size. At the price point of the gun Its probably the same frame as the 20. Barrel length will add some weight as the 28 ga bbls are probably heavier than 20 ga bbls if they share the same frame.

To get a 28 SXS on a true 28ga frame you are looking at $4000 plus. I mentioned the Rota as in IMHO its a nicer gun than the current list of imports at $1000 or less.

quote:

To get a 28 SXS on a true 28ga frame you are looking at $4000 plus.

A sub 5 1/2 lb CZ Bobwhite on a proper size frame can be had for $750. A CZ Ringneck can also be had for under $1000 but pistol grips, beavertails, and single triggers don't turn me on at all. My AyA 453 is on a small frame, weighs 5 lbs. 3 oz., and cost half the amount you mentioned just a few years ago. One in 99% to as new pre-owned condition can be had for that same price today. There are other spanish boxlocks that can be had for that or less, and I'm not talking about the mass produced totally machine made guns like either the CZ or the Rota. Nicer looking is a subjective term and we all have different taste in how we like our guns finished. I just wish there were more of the proper frame small gauges to choose from in that under $1000 price range. As of today I think we are limited to the CZ. They also make the only two new four-tens on a proper size frame for under $1000 that I am aware of.

SH

Folks I think you guys answers are great! like I said I'm not that up to snuff on shotguns but it does not mean I don't know how to handle one, the cost of shotshells does not bother me too much, I have been shooting my 410 for the last 3 years or so for doves and quail and I'm not patting my back but with a limit of 15 doves I normally bring back shells from a box of 25. When I was looking at the CZ shotguns I guess I was looking at the Ringneck which I really would like to have the double trigger and I found the Bobwhite and I think this shotgun will fit what I'm after perfectly! I'd like to find one to put hands on first before I go off and order one on-line but around here I don't know who would have something like that or at least the shops I go to pretty much just carry semi's, pump action, and O/U's I don't care for flashy bling bling stuff but while I know I', gonna have to save a little longer I just want a 28ga. SxS in a sexy classic style that will work for the rest of my life in a reasonable price range, too much to ask? Thanks for pointing me toward the CZ's! I have a CZ rifle in 17 Remington and it's the only rifle to have not been touched to make it shoot better so I can hope the quality flows over into their shotguns. Again thanks fella's for helping out a shotgun illiterate guy. Later,

Kirk

CustomStox:

Thanks for your informative -and courteous reply. It saddens me if your post is correct -because I used a 16 through practically all of my teens on birds (I shot rabbits and, yes, squirrels with a 410. My mother was a sworn enemy of squirrels and "made" me shoot them off the ridgepole to make sure!) I always have felt that the 16 faded away only because the 20 had longer and more heavily loaded shells introduced. You know what still bothers this old man about the two gauges? The 20 looks not as good as a 16 broken open and draped over the arm. OK! I said it! I like the appearance of a firearm. (I think a Glock is ugly -and a Colt Python is beautiful)

Gerry, that is what it is all about. Enjoying the look and feel of a gun, from the moment you see it on the rack, shoulder it, break it open to carrying it in the field.

There is something about proper proportions, something about fine machines, smooth operations, and good wood. Something about balance and just "feel".

Once you have such a gun (and my 20 ga Elsie comes close) it becomes harder and harder to put up with crude examples. JMO, Dutch.

Dutch said it really well and usually does. It seems often to be finding a gun that has been waiting in some dusty corner just for you. I am rebuilding and restocking a late 1920's P. Gosuin Belgium side by side. It has 26.74" (68 mm) barrels with a boxlock action that is covered in rose and scroll engraving. It will weigh around 6 1/4 pounds empty and I will be shooting light loads in it. Not that it would not take heavier, but something around 7/8 to 1 ounce would go well in it. I changed the Prince of Wales grip to a straight stock and am awaiting a time to start the stock. I am hoping that what comes out of it is that gun I have been looking for all my life.

In the meantime, I have 2 Elsies - 12 gauges that I can't bear to get rid. So they may be backups to my tottering era. The old fool era has already come.

I have enough other shotguns that will likely just gather dust. A few have been eyed by my son so that is a good place for them to end up.

Dutch:

As usual your remarks always catch what I am trying to say. Now let me tell you how unpredictable I can be! I said in my post that I said that I thought the Glock was ugly and that the Colt Python was beautiful. I stand by that remark - but I think a Sig/Sauer auto I saw once (9mm, as I remember)was a very good looking pistol -and I'm not much for autos -(except the Colt 45 1911 A1 and the Luger, preferably in 7.65 which is the one I knew) You are right, of course, we just love the way the firearm looks, and the way it handles and feels. I am not so sure also that just that doesn't make us shoot better. (There was an old shooting expression about contestants at "turkey shoots" {the real kind}: " Beware of the man with one gun". Maybe it was because he loved it so much.

CustomStox:

You first educated me on modern glues to fix up shotgun stock cracks -and you continue to impress me with your current projects. ( It's a shameful secret of mine (particularly since I'm the son of an engineer) but I never was good with my hands. I admire anyone who is) Your mention of an L.C. Smith stirred old memories. I never owned one but hunted with a guy as a teenager who did. I carried a 12 Lefevre for one season, as I remember, for ruffed grouse. (using light loads, of course) I was a constant gun trader in my teens. Nobody ever told me that 50 years down the road these DBs would be worth so much!

Have you considered sub-gauge tubes inserts for your 12ga? I have seen them as low as $30 at Gander Mountain to $235 for a set of Chamber Mates. 28ga fired in a 12ga should be very low recoil. Maybe someone with experience will jump into this discussion. Good luck.

Ksmirk:

If you have occasion to be in the Dallas area, try Sportsman's Warehouse for a CZ Bobwhite. Their "tag" prices are usually pretty competitive, and if you deal with the department manager, they'll often cut you some slack on the price.

I have the Ringneck in 28 gauge (because I prefer the single trigger), but the Bobwhite is a much better deal pricewise. I've only used my CZ for part of one season (got it mid-September last year) but I think I'm going to like it. Some have questioned whether the metallurgy in these Turkish-made guns is the equal of higher priced guns and if they will last as long. I doubt shooting an average of more than ten or so boxes per year (reloaded, I might add) though mine, so I won't live long enough to see if it loosens up after 10,000 rounds.

Stonecreek I hit the Sportsman Warehouse here and they had the O/U's but no doubles, I went to a few places today and finally found a CZ double but it was the little shorty one, that thing was STIFF! the salesguy handed it to me to open and I told him I ain't gonna break it! then I saw one of the Marlin (LC Smiths) but no 28ga. with an added price tag! I think I'll put a stash fund for a new shotgun in place and just wait til next year! I have 2 more boxes of 410 shells so that ought to be good for a few birds. Later,

Kirk

Ksmirk, I have only just started using my 28g (a Beretta 686s), and while I know you are set on a SbS, don't worry, take the time, and get what you want! It's always easier to do it right the first time.
BTW, I think you will love the 28g, I know I do.
And now so do about a dozen others who have seen mine, and have ordered their own, some Rizzinis, one of the agricultural Mossbergs, and a Beretta 687eell.
Keep saving, and keep looking!

Best of luck in your search.