Local shop has a Chas. Daley Over/Under (made by some Japanese outfit) 12 bore, 2 3/4" chamber gun. Set up for clays. It's gorgeous, fits me well, and a good gun for clays I suppose.

Points and swings very well for me.

I'm new to all this, looking for a gun for skeet, trap. Never shot either one.

Are the Chas. Daley's a decent gun, or what?

I looked at an older one, I believe it was imported from Turkey. I was not impressed and have been told that after about 200 rounds the guns become very loose.

But the one yuo describe sounds like a higher end model than the one I looked at. THe price on the one I looked at was $400.

The Charles Daly's made in Japan by MIROKU.

Miroku now owns 51% of Browning
They make the Browning Citori.

The Charles Daly / Miroku is a pre Citori, as most of them have vee type hammer springs 1964 to 1974 when they then went to a coil type spring. In 1976 Charles Daly sold out and the importaion of the Miroku shotguns stopped.
They also has several differnt grades.

For some info about the differnt types of these shotguns there is an section on our website, www.wisnersinc.com

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

This one's used, 95% and asking $950 out of a shop. It's high end stuff.

There's a Stevens side by side there too, $950. I'm assuming both are high end trap/skeet guns.

But I'm new to this end of shooting.

45/70
The older Miroku made O/Us (and SxSs) are one of the better gun bargains available. The engraving is a bit coarse, but hand cut and IMO well designed. The guns stand up to regular target shooting volumes as well as a Browning Super (which is pretty well - not at the Kreighoff/Perazzi level but that's why those guns cost). Mr Wisner's shop makes replacement springs and firing pins so the standard parts are available.
If I were looking at the gun, I'd check to see where the toplever sits after dryfiring both barrels; if it's centered or right of center you know the bolting is still tight. With the barrels off the reciever, ring them to confirm the ribs are still well soldered. And off to the trap club!

Met the owner of this gun at the shop. It's never been fired. He bought it, put it in his safe. It's a gorgeous gun, for trap/skeet. Not a "hunter."

But I'm looking for a trap/skeet gun.

quote:

Miroku now owns 51% of Browning
They make the Browning Citori.

FN owns "Browning," and FN is owned by the Walloon region of Belgium. FN has an interest in Miroku, not the other way around.

My Dad got one in the 60's and shot trap with it for years as well as hunted upland.

He passed it on to me 2 years ago since he doesn't shoot any more.

It has had thousands & thousands of rounds through it and is still as tight as it ever was.

It was made before removable chokes I guess.

Beautiful wood and great fit & finish.

If you like O/Us it is a great choice if this one is any indication.

Posted 15 November 2006 20:24 Hide Post
quote:

Miroku now owns 51% of Browning
They make the Browning Citori.



FN owns "Browning," and FN is owned by the Walloon region of Belgium. FN has an interest in Miroku, not the other way around.

Randy Wakeman


The following is from Brownings History Time Line.

1965
Browning began negotiations with Miroku Firearms in Japan.

1965
Entered the sailboat business with the acquisition of Newport Boats of California and Virginia. Assets liquidated in 1976.

1966
Archery accessories added to the line.

1967
BAR semi-automatic sporting high powered rifle was introduced. 3" Auto-5 Mag. 20 gauge introduced.

1968
St. Louis sales operation relocated to Morgan, Utah. Warehouse/parts and service moved to Arnold, Missouri.

1968
Barth Leather Company and Caldwell Lace Company (Auburn, Kentucky) acquired.

May, 1968
Hunting clothing introduced. Introduced BT-99 single barrel Trap shotgun.

1969
Acquired Harwill, Inc., manufacturers of Fiberglass outboard and inboard motorboats as well as small aluminum boats and canoes. Liquidated in 1974.

May, 1969
BL-22 Lever Action 22 rifle and knives added to the line.

1970
Medalist 22 target pistol added.

1971
New 380 pistol and BLR Lever Action high-power rifle added to the line.

1972
B-SS 12 gauge side-by-side shotgun added.

1973
New guns introduced: 12 gauge Citori over/under shotgun, 12 gauge Liege over/under shotgun, B-SS in 20 gauge, B-78 single shot rifle in round or octagon barrel options.

1974
Browning line was enlarged with the B-2000 automatic shotgun in 12 gauge, the Citori 20 gauge and the Citori Trap & Skeet models.

1975
Citori 20 gauge Skeet introduced. B-2000 in 20 gauge added to the line.

1976
Further additions: Challenger II 22 pistol, BT-99 Competition, B-78 in 45-70 and 7mm, and BLR 358, Citori became available with extra barrels, Auto-5 16 gauge discontinued, Auto-5 production went to Japan latter part of 1976.

1977
Superposed discontinued (Grade I, Diana, Midas), Presentation Superposed introduced. BAR 22 and BPR 22 introduced, BPS pump shotgun introduced (12 gauge only), Jonathan Browning Mountain Rifle introduced, BBR bolt action rifle introduced, B-2000 Trap & Skeet introduced with high post rib, BDA pistol introduced in 45, 9mm and 38 Super.

1977
90% of Browning Arms Company outstanding stock was purchased by FN and Miroku.


I had read someweelse that Miroku had the 51% of stock.

Then you have the French/FN/Miroku/USRA connections.

Jim Wisner

they are a pretty gun and my experence with them is favorable but in this part of the world 950 is way on the high end.

The Charles Daly Venture grade was a cheaper model then the Superior grade.1973-1974. The Superior had coil springs and was made by Miroku. Superior guns are so marked, and import markings have NY (New York) on the barrel. My Superior model Daly is the same as my early Citori.These are fixed choke guns and do not bring prices like a Citori with screw in chokes. Also the markings (**,*-) for the fixed chokes , full, mod., ic, skeet, are different between the Daly and the Citori. In 1973 you could buy a Daly Venture new for $310. The Superior was $375 in trap models. The Superior grade has the coil springs, i am not sure about the other Daly"s. Tho i remember a broken v-type flat spring in my buddies old Daly that was not a Superior model.

45/70,
I have had a few of them and one Miroku through Arnold Reiger of Castlerock Wa. He was the importer of these for a few years and in the early 70's they sold for $175. You might look at Gunsamerica for a good reference for guns of the same model and cost.

If you are looking for a trap or a skeet gun, it may work just fine for you. The two are not very compatible though. A trap gun will be stocked to shoot higher than the point of aim and a skeet gun will be stocked in most cases very similar to a field or hunting gun. I would expect you will find that the price is not that far out of line but you at the same time get very good deals on Daly's and Mirokus. I bought a 20 ga for $650 and had choke tubes installed and shoot it at for hunting but it has also served as an interim skeet gun. I am also awaiting a 28 gauge Daly Miroku that is on it's way from AZ. I think they are the best bargain in O/U's in todays gun market.

I have read the same thing that Jim Wiseners mentioned about ownership of Browning relative to Miroku. You can generally take anything he says to the bank. You would be hard pressed to find a more informed gunsmith than him.

243winxb

I have collected a LOT of the Charles Daly sale brochures and there is still a lot fo missing info I do not have. As well as having worked on a LOT of these shotguns.

The different grades over the years in order of ranking, low to high.

Hunter (only made two years)
Venture (replaced the Hunter)
Field (most have the round pistol grip)
Superior ( most have the black pistol grip cap)
Diamond

And then you have the differnt engraving patterns that changed over the time period also.

They all had vee mainsprings until sometime in 1974? however due to old inventory they still had vee springs up to Oct 1976 when they sold out.

Pull off the forearm to see if the ejector hammers have the coil springs or not. If so then it will have coil springs inside the action as well.

There was a stock stlye change in about 1972 that you see a lot. These are the guns that I always check out to see if they have coil springs or not. This is the grip stlye that is like the Browning Citori.

NOTE they did offer a retro fit to replace the hammer springs with coil springs for a while untill they sold out in OCT 1976.

This requires, new hammers, new coil springs and spring guides, machining one woodruff slot inside the action and a block installed for the spring seat for the RH hammer mainspring.

I picked up a coil spring Trap gun, 12 gauge, 30" full and full, off gunbroker a few months back, it had been dropped and the forearm had two spots split, and a crack in the grip. Nothing really wrong with the bluing as the wood took the impact of what ever. Only cost me $340.00 including shipping. So there are some good buys out there.

I hope this helps.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

No longer a part of the French conglomerate GIAT, FN now owns FN. The official company name is "The Herstal Group."