Getting back into shotshell reloading after a 15 year break and I just bought a Mec 600jr and I am having a problem getting it adjusted for the proper crimp. I am using WAA cases in 20ga and I get good results in the crimping but the whole case will buckle if you will, and makes them unuseable. I have backed off on the crimper and no more crushed cases but I am getting very loose crimps to the point to where they will start to open. I have adjusted this goofy thing over and over with the similar results. But then I do on occasion get a "good" load which really gets me scratching my head . I have the crimp starter set to get good forming, no problem there. I am starting to think it is the Winchester cases are not up to snuff, they are once fired but I am thinking they (Winchester) have managed to make them thinner than they used to thus causing this problem. I am using Pacific Versalite wads with 7/8oz lead over Universal Clays. Any suggestions would be helpful.

[ 08-17-2003, 00:11: Message edited by: RonsGuns ]

have you tried more wad pressure? next step would be a different wad. I've been loading 15.5gr of Hogdons Universal Clays with a orange Duster (win aa replacement) and the only adjustment I do between 7/8 and 1oz of shot is the wad pressure.

are you using a adj.charge bar or the bushing type? sounds like you're putting in a touch too much shot

I am using a new bushing type bar for 7/8oz loads with #8 shot. I am beginning to question the wads even though they are compressing when I pull the handle down to drop the shot charge, I get an excellent crimp start and it all goes down the toilet on the final crimp.

This is not an uncommon situation with the new AA hulls. They are not as strong at the base as the old, one piece hulls.

That is why the marketing guru's call the new ones "high strength". (Please note dripping sarcasm)

When reloading, you should first check each hull to make sure the basewad has not moved forward. It's a quick check, but worth while (though the 600 jr will reseat the wad without problem).

Take a look at this page, which has the suggestions that Winchester makes for loading the new hull:

http://www.winchester.com/ammunition/store/new_products/reloadAA.eye

I must admit that the new AA has a terrific reloading life, and they do reload fine, at least in the 12 ga. HTH, Dutch.

Dutch,
I checked the web link you posted, they are referring to a "slight buckle" in the case. If I was getting only a slight buckle I would be happy as hell, but what I am getting leans more toward an accordion! Maybe I will try and get some Remington hulls and give them a try unless they have copied the brillant thinking of Winchester and went to the "new and Improved" POS 2 piece hull also..

Try lining your shot bushing with a piece of electric tape,,maby 2 layers and try again.sounds like you tryed most everything else.Good luck,Clay

Ron, if it makes you feel better, I've "accordioned" my fair share going up the loading curve!

The trick seems to be about 65#'s of wad pressure, backing the crimp punch off a turn or so, and really lowering that crimp starter. If that doesn't work, it's time to change wads or go to a lower volume powder.

One good thing about the Winchester wads is that they collapse quite nicely, and stay that way. This allows the reloader to adjust the volume available for shot and powder without running the risk of pushing the crimps back out. HTH, Dutch.

Ron: I think everybody may have missed this one so far.

You don't specify how you have adjusted your crimping depth. There are TWO final crimping adjustments on the MEC. One is the depth of the entire crimping unit (the body). This one determines how much taper is placed on the front edge of the crimped shell. If you set it too deep, it will collapse the hull. The other adjustment is the ram which mashes the center of the crimped petals into place. It sounds as if you are setting your crimping body too deep and it is crushing your hull, but when you back it off you are not resetting your center punch deeper, and therefore the petals are not pushed deep enough into the fold. One adjustment kind of effects the other, so you have to "fiddle" with them a bit to get it right. It's hard to explain in writing how to make the adjustment properly, but if you'll look at the mechanism with what I've described in mind, you'll soon see how to accomplish the right body taper with the appropriate center fold pressure. (To set the center punch deeper, tilt the cam mechanism which forces it downward by loosening the adjusting screw and rotating the cam piece then re-tightening.)

If you have the crimping station properly adjusted, it will collapse the wad appropriately. The only need to collapse the wad prior to crimping is when their isn't adequate room for the shot charge without some wad collapse.

After you try the readjustment I have suggested, write back and tell us about your success or failure, and we'll try to give you further guidance if necessary.

Good luck!

Stonecreek,

I understand exactly what you are talking about in your post, I have been doing that dance through about 20 rounds so far. That is where the problem is, I get great crimps and good taper if only the case wasn't a wrinkled mess I would be good to go. I have exhausted my supply of empties at the moment so I figure to put this on the back burner for a few days. But I won't give up, I'll keep at it until I get it right or it kills me Come to think about it either way the problem will be solved!

Hmmmmm. . . I'm not familiar with the Versalite wad. Is its center section easily collapsable? My old standby load is 15.5 grains of Unique with 7/8 oz of shot and a WW AA 20 white. I'll admit that I haven't had occasion to load any of the "new improved" AA hulls, which causes me to begin to suspicion this "improvement". Keep us posted if you figure this one out.

Sounds much like my hair pulling out experiences.

Just started reloading as well on a 9000g.

For what it's worth here's my thoughts.

Is the case buckled at the crimping stage? If so then I think the cam works the opposite way from what you would think. If it is raised then it lowers the pressure and vice versa.

I also found that the M5 thread stripped easilly and I spent ages adjusting only to strip the thread. M6 is much larger and will not move once tightened.

Try backing the cam of fully and adjust from there.

I have had problems with crimps but tracked it down to inconsistant powder drops. I had too much space and the crimp was dropping.

Hope this is some help

Ronsguns,It really sounds like you need to loose 5-7 pelets out of your charge and you'll get it right.I've been in your situation before.Better yet,get a adj. charge bar and be done with bushings forever,,Much easier to "tweak"

I have had the same problem with my 600jr the slotted adjustment for the body taper I took the screw out and slid it out of the slot and put in back in on the far side and everything has worked fine since.

I've rarely had this problem with Winchester hulls in any gauge, but I have had it a lot with Remington hulls in the smaller (20, 28) gauges.

I suggest you try changing your wad and your powder. If you want to load 7/8 oz. loads in 12 gauge, I suggest you get the Winchester Gray Wad -- the one designed for 7/8 oz. loads. I also suggest you switch to a faster burning powder because you will use less of it, meaning that your powder+wad+shot column will likely be shorter. For 7/8 oz. 12 ga. loads I like Hodgdon's Titewad or Clays. Winchester Super Target also works well, as does IMR 700X.

Sorry -- I just re-read your post and realize that you are loading 20 gauge, not 12 gauge. In that case, I recommend that you use the Winchester WAA20 wads, or the Claybuster clone of the WAA20. I also recommend that you use Hodgdon International Clays powder, or Winchester Super Field. Alliant Green Dot should also work well, but it does take up more space for a given charge weight. I've found that getting the right wad for the hull you are using is usually the key to solving this problem.

When I had this problem with Remington hulls, I was trying to use Winchester wads (or Claybuster clones of the Winchester wads) in them. When I switched to Remington wads, the problem went away.

I also recommend that, if possible, you get some of the new Remington STS hulls and load those, using the Remington wad that goes with them. In my opinion, the new Remington STS hulls are better than the older Winchester AA ones. I didn't like the older Remington hulls, as they were made of a plastic that seemed to be thicker and softer than the plastic used in the Winchester AA hulls. But the new Remington hulls are, I think, superior.

I must admit that I haven't had much experience with the new Winchester hulls. Since I have a supply of the older Winchester ones, in every size from 12 ga to .410, and also a supply of the new Remington ones, I've been able to avoid having to cope with the new Winchester ones. I think the older Winchester AA hull was superior to the older Remington ones, but -- to repeat this point -- now I think the new Remingtons have become superior.

[ 08-28-2003, 18:16: Message edited by: LE270 ]

Here are some more possibilities:

1. Call MEC -- their number is 1-800-797-4632, extension 4000 -- and explain your problem to the appropriate person there. I've found them to be helpful.

2. Call, write, or email Winchester and explain your problem to them. I've found both Winchester and Remington to be helpful when you have a problem with their products.

3. It's possible -- I don't know this for a fact; I'm only guessing -- that the new Winchester hulls are not really compatible with the old WAA wads. If that is so, then you may need to get the wad that goes with the new Winchester AA hulls.

4. It may help to increase the pressure you are putting on the wads when you compress them over the powder.

Shazam... Finally got my reloads looking like they should with no more crumpled cases All that I needed to do is shit can those lousy AA hulls and round me up some Remington Premier one piece hulls.
I did not have to make any adjustments other than the hull change.. Guess now I can add Winchester hulls to the list of junk that I will no longer purchase and they will rank right up at the top of that list right next to the firearms made by Winchester.