I'm thinking of buying a Rem 870 3-1/2". I've always owned Mossberg pumps, with the exception of a 30+ year old 2-3/4" 870 Wingmaster that's never been fired.
But the new 3-1/2" Rem wood finish #5100, has caught my eye.

Anyone have any advice on their strength/weakness, flaws, etc?
It would only be fed the hottest shells, but would otherwise be treated like a princess.
I'd ask Remington as well, but their site has been down.

Thanks, Corey

Except for waterfowling, the 3 1/2" 870, or any other 3 1/2" howitzer, will do little that your old 870 will not.

Exceptions, go through your money faster and give you a flinch in record time.

The big benefit resulting from the introduction of the 3 1/2" load is the makers got to sell more shotguns to folks with racks and closets full of fine shotguns already.

I cannot imagine having an unfired, 30 year old 870. I've at least one older than that (1950), and it's been shot plenty. Another mid 70s 870TB trap masterpiece has had around 7K rounds in the last 1 1/2 years through it, glitchfree.

If I hit the Lottery, I might go get a Kolar,or some nice Purdeys to gladden the eye and wow them down at the range. But probably I'd be out there hunting down 870s like yours and USING them often and well.The 5 here aren't nearly enough....

Oh yes, my first 10 geese or so back in the 50s were taken with a 16 gauge H&R. The next 100 or so fell to that first 870. Dinky li'l 2 3/4" shells, too.....

Since you seem to be fond of the Mossbergs, if you don't get that 870, I have an 835 Ulti-Mag that sees no use since the first year I bought it that would be willing to part with if your interested.

Dave McC:
I like the 3 1/2" "howitzer" round, I've always thought the 12 could use just a little more until now. I load my own so cost is not an issue, store bought ammo is outrageous! Plus I want what is not made, like 3-1/2" slug loads, or shells with 2-1/2oz shot. I also like to make them hotter than factory. If I want lighter loads I can just load 2-3/4� shells.
The 30+yr old 870 was purchased by my Grandpa, he never found the time to shoot it, but he was happy to have it. I inherited it when he passed and will keep it virgin. I have plenty of other shotguns to soil.

Ron53:
I bought one last year, 24�, flat finish, Walnut stock. I love it, but I keep eyeing that purdy 870. What do you want for yours? Maybe one of my buddies would want it.

BC hunter:
Damn! I thought I had something special. I guess I'll have to make a 3oz shell!
I couldn't find them online, I take it you have some? Mine come out @ 1400fps or so.

I have a Moss 835, it weighs 7lbs 6oz. The Rem is supposed to be an oz or 2 lighter.
If you wanna talk light, my H&R is only 4lbs 12oz! I tried to run it thru a recoil calculator program I have, but it wouldn't accept above 900 grains bullet wt.
I haven't fired a shell that powerful from the H&R yet, maybe next shooting trip.

To each his own, Corey. One caveat....

I relaod also, just to keep me in trap loads and stuff for the ocassional dove foray or pheasant shoot. My loads run on the light side, for good reason.

Shotguns and hand grenades have similar working pressures. Knowing this encourages me to follow the manuals, I've too many folks depending on me to take chances.

And, using heavy loads just for the thump got old maybe 40K rounds ago. I'm far from recoil sensitive, and I'm gonna keep it that way.

Nobody I know out of hundreds of shotgunners, Practical shooters,and guides, use overloads. There's a lesson there.....

HTH....

Dave McC:
Actually that load I described only generated 12k psi. I have made several types of shells over the years that were over the 14k limit, but it's not like that's my goal. My goal is to do it myself, do it better, make it unique, and above all do it for fun. Most of my loads are for fun only, but I personally prefer the max when hunting. I actually have more 2-3/4 shells loaded right now, I use them for shootin clays with my friends. Of course they�re loaded to the max as well, but recoil is light and certainly doesn�t cause a flinch.
I�m no tough guy, but seem to be recoil tolerant. I have two friends that are not tolerant at all and after one shot the first developed a nasty bruise from elbow to nipple, the other couldn�t (or didn�t want to) use his arm for the rest of the day. They enjoyed the experience of having done it, but won�t do it again.

I recently found a place to test shells for me so I will be redesigning shells that were a little too high and experimenting with new ones as well. I know it is possible to make a reasonable change to a shell or cartridge and get huge pressure increases, that�s why people stress �stick to the book�. At least I�m having my Frankenstein creations tested.

Almost forgot, I wanted to ask you something; someone told me the 870 is not made like it used to be and they can blow barrels and choke tubes. Since I prefer X-full chokes and heavy loads I imagine mine would see the most stress. What�s your experience?

Frankly, you're scaring me a bit. 14K PSI is an overload by European standards, and over the redline for SAMMI. And the difference between 12k and 14K is less than the average pressure gain shown by a 15 degree F temperature gain, according to Zutz.

My trap loads run about 9K, if the Lyman manual is to be believed. Lower pressure and lower velocity means less pellet deformation, better patterns and performance.

As for 870s, they're not made like they used to be, but the difference is in QC and workmanship, not blown bbls and chokes. My newest 12 gauge 870 is maybe late 80s, so I'm not that affected. A new 870 should handle pressure just like the older ones.

As for kick, shooting a practical shotgun match (50-60 rounds of full power 00, followed by 12 slugs) with an issue weapon weighing 7 lbs of less does leave a bit sore the next day sometimes. Running 200 trap loads from a 9 lb 870TB is a walk in the park, kickwise.

BTW, my oldest 870 has had between 8-10,000 rounds through it, mostly heavy goose loads, buck and slugs. Still tight as a bank vault. Using sensible ammo, an 870 will last longer than we will, no matter how healthily we live.

No worries mate, they raised the pressure to 14K with the 3-1/2" gun. Makes sense to me since the only reason it was kept at 11.5K was because of old guns. Marlin had a similar problem with it's 45-70, they wanted a 45-70 with more power but couldn't raise the pressure because of the old 18K "Trapdoor", so they simply changed the brass so it won't fit a 45-70, loaded it to 43.5K, and called it a 450 Marlin. Of course you can safely load a 45-70 to 43.5K and use it in a 45-70 Marlin, just as you can load a 2-3/4" shell to 14K and shoot it in a 3-1/2" gun.

As far as patterns, I'm still working on that, I want to dial in my pressure first.
Slow powder, wad choice, X-hard shot, and buffer all contribute to making a successful higher velocity load with minimum distortion. Those are things the factory doesn't offer, or charges thru the nose for.
Also, slow powder seems to smooth out recoil a lot. I do wish I could find some really hard 00 buck, that stuff distorts badly.

I can not coment on Mossbergs but I have owned and used 870's for over 30 years and with the exception of several work owned 870's I have never had a failure. The work guns would still be in service except someone did not keep the barrel nut tight causing undue wear on the receiver. I have owned 3 870's myself and a couple of years ago traded off my duck hunting 870 express for the 870 superMag (3 1/2"). The only good a 3 1/2" will do you is for waterfowl since it was designed to improve the performance of steel shot, I do not know if lead shot is available in the 3.5".
As far as recoil goes I don't feel much difference in recoil over heavy 3" loads in my wingmaster.

The only downside is I have "short stroked" this new gun several times hunting. This is do to the ejectors being repositioned 1/2" farther back in the receiver and I have been accustomed to the travel of my 3" pumps, which causes failure to eject the spent shell or failure to load a new one. I am sure this problem will work itself out as I become more accustomed to it.

The 870 is a reliable easily assemled/disassembled strong shotgun with the availability of replacement parts and barrels.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chevota:
[QB]BC hunter:
Damn! I thought I had something special. I guess I'll have to make a 3oz shell!
I couldn't find them online, I take it you have some? Mine come out @ 1400fps or so.

Chevota,
I too, tried to find the Remingtons 2-1/2oz loads on the Remington site, and the ones I have are not shown at all. To further complicate matters, when I e-mailed Remington to ask if these were lead or steel, {as there is no indication on the box} they assured me they were steel. I put a strong magnet to them after getting a suugestion to do so, and there is no attraction at all. They must be lead! This, needless to say, made me a little PO'ed. If I had been in the field with them and a CO checked them, I could have been in deep doo-doo. I recently purchased them from a local gunstore, after asking for the 3.5" steel,BB's
They say "Premier Magnum" on the hull's and "Express Long Range Buffered Shot" on the box, and 1150fps, P1235mbb, whatever that means, OH,OH, I screwed up They are 2-1/4 oz. after all. Sorry, I could have sworn I had read 2-1/2oz. Well that makes me feel like a bit of a clod. I guess you can go back to the building the shotshell that never was.
Eyes must be going, that or the brain
Still I am trying to figure out how to approach Remington on this issue, as they could have caused me a lot of grief. How can I convince them that a crate of new STEEL shotshells, may restore my faith in them??
Sorry again, about the confusion..

BC hunter:

YES!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, my unique elite shotshell that never was status is back! But I think I'll still make the 3oz'ers, it sounds like a good challenge.

I'm the kinda guy who takes everything apart as soon as he gets it, so your whole steel/lead dilemma is actually not comprehendible to me.
But just because you have a gun shop doesn't make you an expert. And what a blow it on Rem's part. When you asked them did you say 2-1/2 or 2-1/4? It would be funny if 2-1/2 slipped by them too. There�s not enough room for 2-1/2oz of steel, more like 1-1/2 oz in a factory load maybe someday they�ll make a 1-3/4, maybe 2oz in a hand load, but that�s about it.

My code breaking guess on �P1235mbb�; P=Premier, 1235=12GA-3.5�, M=Magnum, and BB=shot size. But hey, what do I know, it�s not like I own a gun shop or something.
Actually I am sure on the 1235 part, I remember the # from ordering empty hulls.

Lightfield is making a 3.5" slug

You guys are just trying to kill my fun.

I just looked at Lightfields site, you're right... bastards.
Damn, they want $48 for 15 rounds, can that be right? Would someone pay that?
They advertise: "Lightfield Ranks Superior: High muzzle velocities: 12 gauge - 1464 ft/sec."
Is there a mfg that offers a lower velocity than that?
I hope those are misprints on their site. I think I'll write them and see.

BC hunter:

I think it�s a given that a box of shells are lead unless it�s specifically marked otherwise. Maybe in another 10 years it�ll be the other way around. Heck the way things are headed you�ll be a criminal for having lead. I can see it now; you�re in prison and the hardened brute in the next cell says, �What�re ya in for?� You reply; �Uhhhh.. possession of lead shotshells.� He replies; �You sick bastard! I�m gunna kill you!� Well, maybe it won�t get quite that bad, but trapping and clubbing animals for fur used to be honest work. Now they�ll put you in jail for swatting your own dog.

Yes, I take (almost) everything apart, the woman won�t play that game. But I do like to read about the human anatomy.
I always take shells apart to see what the factory is up to. I have only bought a few shells myself because I started reloading shortly after I bought my first shotgun. I get shells from friends, plus I broke down and paid for Win, Rem, and Fed 3� slugs, and best Rem 3-1/2 turkey and Fed 3-1/2� 00 buck shells to take apart and to compare ballistics to my shells.
I usually can�t identify the powder, I�m sure it�s a �secret squirrel� formula. In the rest of the components there�s a big difference in quality between the 2-3/4� $6 a box crap and the best 3-1/2� expensive stuff. You get a much nicer shell, but they charge more than they should. An average Joe like myself can make �top-of-the-line� 3-1/2� shells for about $7 a box, add a few bucks to that for �00� Buck shells, and add a few more if you don�t actually save and reload the spent shells. And by box I mean 25, not the lame new 10 round boxes designed to reduce sticker shock.