What are the best 3 1/2 in lead free 12 ga shells for geese. Federal has their "Black Cloud" which I've used a bit. Winchester has their new "Blind Side" ammo with hex shaped shot. Rem had "Hevi Shot" but that seems to be marketed by someone other than Remington now. Is Rem bringing out a new premium load?? I was using the Rem Hevi shot in my 10 ga 3 1/2 in and it worked great. Just hard to find the 10 ga shells.Either you can't find premium shot to reload or it is so expensive its cheaper to buy factory shells. This has squeezed me into trying a 12 ga 3 1/2 in super Black Eagle II and I'm curious what others are having sucess with. Thanks for your comments.

I have had good luck with win 3 inch expert 1550fps at 10 dollars a box one can't go wrong.

First, the caveat that I'm south of the border from you, and I don't know about ordering across an international border.

To be honest, at the prices they charge for 10 ga and 12 ga 3.5 shells, I just handload the "premium" nontox stuff. Environmental went on their own for hevi shot, so you can probably find that for sale in some magazines or with a google search.

Federal came up with their own tungsten high density load. There is also Kent's Tungsten matrix shot, which is really neat stuff, but it is spendy, and I don't know if they offer it in 10 Ga, but I think so since they are British as I recall.

To be honest, I use bismuth shot, which while not quite as deadly as the hevishot/ tungsten iron mixes, is a lot better than steel, and behaves pretty much like lead does, including deforming on contact and seeming to kill better.

Having said that, the main reason I use bismuth is after chipping a tooth big time in a steel pellet, using something that will not shatter my teeth is the big thing for me.

Goose hunting for me is just something to do when I can't shoot ducks, so I am usually not too worried about killing them- I shoot more than I really want to eat every year in a couple of hunts.

I usually will use some #2 or BB bismuth loads I made for long range mallards if I want to eat them roasted whole. If I am going to breast them, I usually use either BBB or T steel, although when you used to be able to get it, F steel would drop geese at obscene ranges also. The new cheap BBB/T steel loads will kill geese fine if you are not that worried about getting the last couple extra yards of killing.

I've had quite a bit of sucess with 3" Blackcloud on big midwest geese and Alaskan swans and so see little need to try anything else.

Who said anything about ordering across a border???? As for loading up some premium loads and it being cheaper?? There are not a lot of dealers that handle heavy-shot, ITX or bismuth shot in Canada or the US. Ballistic Products Canadian distributor has the new ITX shot @ $184 per 7lb bag. You do the math, there is nothing cheap about loading that shot. Bismuth is only slightly cheaper. Loaded ammo seems to be the easier option until non-toxic shot is a little cheaper. Thats why I was asking what some others are using. I did try one box of Black Cloud and I found them pretty good. Maybe not quite as good as the Rem hevi shot I had used but certainly better than plain steel.

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
Who said anything about ordering across a border???? As for loading up some premium loads and it being cheaper?? There are not a lot of dealers that handle heavy-shot, ITX or bismuth shot in Canada or the US. Ballistic Products Canadian distributor has the new ITX shot @ $184 per 7lb bag. You do the math, there is nothing cheap about loading that shot. Bismuth is only slightly cheaper. Loaded ammo seems to be the easier option until non-toxic shot is a little cheaper. Thats why I was asking what some others are using. I did try one box of Black Cloud and I found them pretty good. Maybe not quite as good as the Rem hevi shot I had used but certainly better than plain steel.

I used Blackcloud 3" #3's twice in Saskatchewan on a mixed bag hunt and several times here in AK on waterfowl and several times in North Dakota on canada geese. Usually I use an improved cylinder choke in the first barrel and modified in the second. I really love that formula. Sure, I'm tempted to try the other and newer stuff like blindside but I think if I didn't feel confident in a new item I may well not shoot as good and I'd rather give my dog a good day in the field with plenty to retrieve. I'll stick with what I know works.

Thanks for that Scott. Guys I have talked to here all had good things to so about the Black Cloud ammo. And like you say if it works why mess with something else ? I was curious about the "Hevi-Metal" loads by Hevi-shot as well.

The across the border comments were because I noticed you are listed as being from Manitoba. I know when I went up there the 12 Ga steel shells were much more expensive than they were here.

There is apparently a rather sizable difference in price in the nontox shot here and there.

Ballistic products US catalog lists ITX at $129/7#.

Precision lists Nice shot at around $60/kg

Precision also sells branded bismuth at about $150/3 kg

There is a source for some bismuth cheaper somewhere, but I don't recall where here in the states.

I guess I was mistaken in what you mean by premium shells, given your comments on liking the hevishot shells. To me it isn't a premium shell if its steel, although certainly that doesn't mean its bad.

My experiences with Black Cloud and Blind Side were way less than stellar, but I only shot 6-10 rounds of each (a buddy brought them and we all were shooting and seeing what we thought. They are all died in the wool steel shooters, and liked both- they felt evenly split whether blind side or black cloud were better. I didn't think they were as good as my bismuth loads, and could not tell any difference between them lethality wise and the cheap Winchester Xpert steel loads I was using on that hunt.) I tried one box of the hevi metal (to make sure we are talking about the same stuff- environmetal's combo steel and tungsten load) and while it seemed a little better than the Xpert or other steel, I noticed more cripples at long range and more hamburgered birds at short range. I did not see any real utility to me.

Around here, the 10 Ga 3.5 hevishot shells sell for $30/box give or take. $3/shell.

Black Cloud 10 Ga is about $30/box, which is a little more than a $1/shell.

1 3/4 Oz ITX will be around $2/shell for the shot.

I had not priced bismuth lately as I bought a bunch of it back right before it disappeared for a while.

I can understand that availability can be an issue with some of that, and I have no idea what your local dealers have for sale there. 12 Ga shells are usually 20-40% cheaper for the same thing than the 10 Ga shells weight for weight. Drop a little shot off of it and its lots cheaper to go with 3" 12 Ga shells.

My experience is that steel shells are steel shells, and paying near tungsten prices for a celebrity's signature and picture/a funky wad/funny shaped shot is not worth it. Federal, Remington or Wincester's economy steel loads are as good as the more expensive steel loads.

Hevi shot is great bismuth is very good.

I gave up both to go with the high vel steel.

The 1550 win works very well haven't tried the 1700fps rem but it should work very well also.