I bought a case (that's a half-case for us oldtimers) of Estate 28 guage shells, due to the relatively attractive price and the fact that they were on sale, to boot. I understand that Estate is now owned by Federal, which is itself a part of Alliant Techsystems.

Question is, I haven't found any reloading data or references for the Estate hulls, which appear very much like a Federal hull. Does anyone have any experience or know where data is to be found?

I cut 1 in half when I shot up my 2 cases ( 500 )
The 28 gau Estate hulls I have are Cheddite hulls
They have a star on the brass .
New Estate are Fed hulls

IMO I would cut 1 in half and check to be sure.

JOhnch

The NEW Estate shells are the same as the "Federal with Paper Basewad" hull. The OLD Estates (with the stars on the base) are CHEDDITE hulls. HTH, Dutch.

Thanks, guys.

The ones I have appear to be Federals, although the tube material seems a bit more flexible than Federals of old. I think I'll see if I can purchase a box of new Federals and make a direct comparison.

If they load like the Federals of 20 years ago, then they're probably good for one reloading and then let them lay where they fall.

There's so many laying around these parts, there's no reason at all to load them more than once. I've loaded some three and four times with good results, but it's a "why-bother" excercise. FWIW, Dutch.

With Academy charging $23.80 a flat it's getting hard to justify reloading anything accept the 16, 28 and 410. I sure wish they'd add them, too.

Hard to argue with that logic on 12's and 20's. I bought some of those Federal promo loads and find that they will miss a dove just as efficiently as the high-priced loads! Actually, I find the 7/8 oz 20's and 1 oz 12's to be about 98% as effective on doves as the best AA's or equivalent handloads.

And, $2.38 per box is about what I paid for shotshells when I was in high school, nearly 40 years ago. I truly don't understand how they can sell them for that price!

Too bad that I've gotten so particular in my old age that I refuse to shoot anything but a 28 gauge on doves, so I have to pay the price, either in terms of buying factory shells, or in terms of laboring to put them back together again with my MEC.

Did you end up getting a Browning from CDNN?

why do people reload for shotguns, makes no sense to me

Stonecreek,
I have some friends who tried to load them and gave up. I shoot a lot of 28 and 410 and started with Rem STS hulls. They reload okay but the real star is the Winchester AA HS hulls if you are dealing with those gauges. Those hulls will reload over 15 times. Powder selection is critical in the 410. 296 and 110 is the best and it will double the life of using Lil Gun or 410. I use Longshot in the 28.

cummins cowboy, I shoot a lot of skeet. I went through 5000 primers in 3 months this spring. I am shooting a bit less now but not by much. It is difficult to save much money if you are shooting a 12 or 20 gauge. The 28 and the 410 is another story. They cost around $6.50 a box for target loads and $10 for hunting loads. You can load them for around $2.25 and I can build 500 rounds in an hour with my PW loaders. I have 2500 AA HS 28 gauge hulls and 3600 AA HS 410 hulls, some bought new but mostly bought on ebay. The 410 hulls were purchased from a young shooter who was sponsored by Winchester.

Reloading makes a lot of sense for high volume hunters, as well as high volume target shooters. I reload hunting hulls for about $3.25 per box (compare at $10), and target loads at $2.06 (compare at $3.32). When you fire about 12,000 target loads a year (our family's tally this year), that's a few bucks. Plus, I KNOW what's in my reloads.

When I have to buy lead again, my cost will jump to about $2.50, but then again, by then the long-term supply contracts of the manufacturers will be up for renewal, and the promo loads will be that much more expensive, too. FWIW, Dutch.

Dutch, it is soon getting even cheaper for me. My son is starting to build lead shot. We have 4 Littleton shotmakers and we are building the rest of the equipment to process the shot. I bought the equipment, he gets a fairly good part time job and I get free shot. We are paying $320 for a ton of wheel weights and with losses for the clips, he can still make $850 on a ton of shot, selling it at $15 a bag. Very labor intensive but his pay per hour is far better than anything he can find.

Chic,

I've GOT to come watch you guys do that. In a year or two, our club will be ready to mine the range again, and I'd love to be ready to just buy the lead and cast it back into lead-shot, and sell it. FWIW, Dutch.

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch:
Chic,

I've GOT to come watch you guys do that. In a year or two, our club will be ready to mine the range again, and I'd love to be ready to just buy the lead and cast it back into lead-shot, and sell it. FWIW, Dutch.

Dutch: Why melt it down? A large portion of it can be reused if properly washed and screened.

Chic: Thanks for the warning on the Estate/Federal hulls. If they load anything like the Federal hulls of 25 years ago, then just leave 'em lay. Of course, that comment doesn't apply to the short-lived Federal Champion II target hull. Those loaded better than anything else I ever tried. I suppose that's why Federal dropped them. And why did Remington drop the Peters Blue Magics? They were dandies, and I loved the tell-apart color.

Update on loading Estate 28's: I tried the same load that I use in my (non-HS) Winchester AA's in the Estate hulls. Physically, it fit just fine, and crimp quality (Mec 700) was acceptable. The Estate loads chronographed almost exactly the same as the AA's and showed no indications of inappropriate pressure.

I happened to have a few older Federal hulls that I tried the same load in. Compared to the Estates, they have a softer, somewhat "tackier" feeling plastic with a more pronounced ribbing. The one shot I chronographed with the Federal hull yielded about 50 fps less than the Estates and AA's.

My guess is that I'll loose a significant number of these Estate hulls on the second firing due to a portion of the crimp shooting off (or maybe not?). At any rate, they appear to be good for at least one loading. I'll probably use them when I'm shooting in high weeds or some other place that increases your incidence of lost hulls.

BTW: Have you seen AA 28 hulls selling on eBay? They bring well over 15 cents APIECE when you count in the shipping! Why wouldn't the buyers just purchase loaded AA's to begin with? I'm a dedicated reloader, but this price makes no sense to me.

stonecreek,
You pretty much have to watch ebay and bookmark AA HS hulls and check it on occasion. I bought 800 hulls from a guy shipped for $80. Through him I got 3700 AA HS 410 hulls on a private sale. I have seen hulls go for more money than new loaded shells. The good and the bad part of ebay is buyers who are clueless. Good if you are buying but bad if you are selling.

I have been loading the .410 with surplus powder that sells for $56 for 8 pounds. It is called WC820 and loads similar to 110.

Chic: I understand. Stay out of the market when the idiots are buying, and buy while they're sleeping. It's the same with any commodity.

I don't have much occasion to load .410's these days. Have used 2400 in the past. I've wondered about trying WC 820 in my .22 K-Hornet. Have you used any in small rifle applications?

Hodgons site calls for 10.4 grains in a 22 hornet so I would start from there and see what happens. It is a slight bit hotter but not much. My loading data came secondhand but I do respect the guy who used it. He is a skeet shooter and does very well. A friend of his had the loads tested for pressure and that was the basis of the .410 loads.