I'm looking for a new over and under sporting clays gun. I was considering ruger until I saw the bad reviews they got here from the competitive shooting crowd. The Weatherby Orion Super Sporting Clays looks like a lot of gun for the money. Backbored, ported, lengthened forcing cones etc. The Winchester select Energy looks good too but I don't know anything about them. Browning makes several nice ones but they are a bit pricey. Anybody out there have any experience with the Winchester or the weatherby? Who makes Winchesters new over unders?
Migra

Brownings are great but look at SKB's also

SKB makes weatherby's shotguns so that's kind of the direction I'm leaning.

I've always been a Beretta fan for O/U, but the O/U crowd seems to be divided into Browning and Beretta fans (like cat people vs. dog people, or Stones vs. Beatles fans, etc).

If you are leaning toward Brownings, but find Citoris too expensive you might look at used SKBs or Mirokus (the Mirokus were made at the same place as Brownings).

Just some thoughts

Think hard about what choice you make. If you turn into a sporting clay nut like the rest of us you will be buying and selling guns hand over fist.If I was doing it look at the higher end guns in a great shape used one simply because of the trade value you will have later.

OK, I'm getting some good responses here so I'll give you some more info. The shotgun is for my oldest son. Neither of us shoot sporting clays and I don't think there is a sporting clays range within 150 miles of us. We do hunt a lot of upland birds and we do shoot a lot of trap. I gave my son a youth model 870 6 years ago with the understanding that when he outgrew it I would buy him ONE NEW SHOTGUN . He passed the 870 down to his younger brother and now it's time for me to pony up the dough. Here is my reasoning behind a sporting clays gun. He has a BT-99 on semi permanent loan fron grandpa. This covers trap singles and handipcap. Sporting clays is shot low gun, ergo it will also serve as a field gun. Also I know some very good trap shooters that are using sporting clays guns as thier doubles gun. VIALO! one shotgun that does everything. I know it's not the perfect gun for anything he does but I think it be a very good compromise. By the way I want to thank everybody for their suggestions so far but here's where I stand. Berettas are out. Outstanding shotgun but if I could afford one it wouldn't be going to the kid. Brownings aren't out of the question but the ones I like are about 2 grand and that's wholesale with my FFL. Weatherby and SKB, same manufacturer they look good to me but I would like some input as to how they hold up in the long run. I tend to hold onto a gun unless it is junk. I suspect my son will be of a like mind. So say you've got 2 grand (or less) stashed away in a sock for this purpose what would you spend your money on?

Migra

Best to take your time and look arround. Make the drive out to a skeet or sporting clays range and talk to shooters who use the guns your thinking about, and better yet shoot them. Many sporting clays ranges have rentals, so that would be ideal. Local clays range where I am is a Beretta dealer so you can rent different O/U for less than $10 a day, and see what he likes. For a good clays gun that doubles as a hunting gun that you want to last, take your time and let your son look, handle, and shoot as many as he can and let him come to a decision on his own. Best to get one good gun.

The "feel" thing is real important to shotgun shooting. Example, if I was to buy an O/U for this purpose I'd get a Beretta or Rizinni. But my brother in law doesn't like them, and would instantly go for a Browning/Miroku. Neither of us are wrong, but we'd be unhappy with the others choice of guns. See what he likes.Is your price range less than $2,000?

You can still pick up new Beretta 686 (I know its a field gun, but you seem to be looking for a versitile gun), for arround 1300 or so if you look hard enough and buy one thats been handing arround a store for awhile (I did last year). I've seen sporting clays models for less than 2,000 also.

I've heard some good things about Franchi O/Us but no real experince, again I've seen them arround 1,300 or so.

The Red Label seems to take a lot of flack from many shooters, though I've not not had experience with them so I don't know personally. But if in doubt...

I am not sure about current prices on new Rizinis which are good guns.

Chassuer,

Thanks again for the input. Actually the 686 might be an option. None of my distributors carry Rizzini guns. They do however carry Verona shotguns. Thet seem reaonably priced and carry a lifetime warranty. These might be an option. Do you know anything about these? I am definitely trying to keep this purchase under 2 grand. And I'm not going to make a decision immediately and as you pointed out the kid needs to have some input after all it's his gun.

Migra

I'm an active sporting clays shooter and have been around to a lot of clays courses around the country. When you look around at what most shooters are using....it really boils down to two brands: Browning and Beretta. The reason is simple...they last, they are reliable and they are well balanced and fit most shooters well.

This is not to say you wouldnt be happy with an SKB....but why argue with succes? Check for used Brownings or Berettas....by the way..they hold their value very well so, dont expect to find "steals". By the way....a field Beretta 686 will do everything and anything!

Good luck

Sorry but, I don't know much about Verona shotguns.

I'd agree with Carluchin, you see mostly Brownings and Berettas on the field so look at them first. They are both great guns.

Another thing you might think about it getting him a good gunfitting with a qualified fitter, a try gun, and a patterning plate. Its a $150-300 investment that I think really pays off. No sense looking for a gun if you don't know what measurements you are looking for, and its good to be sure of eye dominance if you both dont' know. If not a formal gunfitting, get with your nearest good gunsmith or stock man and get some general measurments: Lop, cast, drop and heel and comb, etc. This can simplify the search and will be reasonable, ie under $100.

Disregard the Verona question. I did a search on the internet and they got a lot more bad reviews than good ones.

if you can try and have a look at B Rizzini guns they are well made fit well and are high performance steel shot proofed so they may be better for feild loads I take it that some feild shooting over there requires steel shot? the Rizzini Vertex would be worth a look so to the Premier
you could try doing a search to find the American importer I am very happy with mine

SKB guns are durable at least the two I own are.I've shot alot of SC and done alot of bird hunting with an SKB 585 Waterfowler and I have an Orion 20 ga I shoot subguage and doves/quail with.I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.IMHO they also have less percieved recoil than any of the Brownings I've shot.
Briley makes extended choke tubes for them as well.
Howard

I agree with the previous poster: Beretta and Browning own that market because of good price/performance. Beretta's tend to be built lighter and Brownings have more drop built into the stock.

686 is a good gun.

If you can stand to do without porting and fiber optic sights and live with a 28" barrel, you can get a Browning citori lightning field gun for around $1,200. They still are backbored with lengthened forcing cones. There are Citori 525's designated as field guns for around $1,700, too.

Steve

I have a Browning Citori Sporting Clays O/U that I bought new about 1991 or 1992 for about $1200. It is the one with a low rib and 28 in. barrels. I like it a lot (I've told my daughter that the first time I picked it up in the gun store and put it up to my eye and sighted down the barrel, it spoke to me), except for the factory-ported barrels -- they do reduce kick and muzzle jump, but they are near-impossible to clean.

I don't know what one would cost today, but, as someone wrote above, if cost matters I'd keep my eye open for used ones.

Having the Browning name on the gun, even if it is made by a Japanese firm, does mean something and does add value. If nothing else, it means that Browning will service it for you if it needs servicing.

Just one opinion but a realy great Sporting Clays gun is not the same thing as a really great upland gun (or most other hunting for that matter). If you want a really great quality hunting gun look for a 28" Browning Superposed on the used market. For under a grand you have a great gun aand withthe other money you can have the forcing cones reworked and the chokes honed for plastic wads. There's probably money left over for some fitting too.

If you want a Clays gun you're looking at 30 or 32 inch barrels, a different pistol grip configuration than a field gun and other considerations. They are not the same gun.

Another option for under 2 grand are some of the really great side by sides like the AyA #2 or the J.P. Sauers, the HK-Fabarms modern guns or many others. Good luck however you go.

migra,
I think since this is going to be mostly a trap gun where competition can be pretty stiff, I would go with a trap gun. If you need to do some Upland hunting with one, you can do it in a pinch, although I don't like to take my target guns out in the field. When you shoot doubles trap, you really want a gun that shoots high, at least for the 1st shot, because it is rising so much more when you shoot it than any other target in trapshooting. The 2nd shot is up to the shooter's preference, everyone's different. Some people even disagree about the 1st shot, but most people agree that higher is better. I'm not a very good overall trapshooter, but last year I had the highest junior doubles average and I was in the top 10 in PA. So, if I were you, I would get a trapgun for him to shoot doubles with, it makes it a lot easier. If I could give him any advice as to actually shooting doubles, it would be to break the 1st target as fast as he possibly can, without making himself rush on the 2nd shot. Good luck, and I hope he breaks a lot of 100s with his new gun (although not when I'm at the same shoot as him ).