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Recommendations on SXS shotgun
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I would like some recommendations on purchasing a s x s shotgun. My specs would be 20 guage, double triggers, English made/style stock, would be used for dove hunting. Any recommendations as far as quality, value, where to purchase, etc greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 
Posts: 725 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 March 2007Reply With Quote
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I too favor those specs for upland birds. Not long ago I got a used Bernadelli Gamecock for about $800 and a Ungartechea for $400.

I have done well on pheasants with the Bernadelli and have only used the Ugartechea for upland. The Ugartechea has 24" barrels!

They are both great handling guns.
 
Posts: 111 | Registered: 20 August 2010Reply With Quote
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A few more questions:

-Desired bbl length?
-How much would you like to spend?
-Age?
-Should it be able to shoot steel?
-Engraving?
-Ejectors or Extractors?
-Boxlock or sidelock?


-----------------------------------------
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. -Henry David Thoreau, Walden
 
Posts: 899 | Location: Tanzania | Registered: 07 December 2007Reply With Quote
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You can find some basic but decent English workhorses on the second hand market. Many are out there in excellent condition and you can even find some several years old that have been fired little or never.

For an entry level gun, I suggest you look at the Birmingham made Webley & Scott models 700 and 720 that were made into the 1980s. The 700 is most often encountered in 12 gauge but was also made in 20. The model 720 was a little bit fancier 20 gauge.

The next step up would be to go to a London made boxlock. Holland & Holland's Northwood and nicer Cavalier models are very well made and carry a well known cache'. There are several other well known London brands like Westley-Richards, Churchill, Charles Osborne, and William Evans but you can often find a very good gun made by one of the lesser known British brands. It is also important to realize that it was quite common for London gun makers to hire out work to Birmingham gun makers. The result is that you can find yourself with a very nicely done gun with a London brand that was almost entirely made in Birmingham and then finished in London. Nevertheless, if a good London firm was willing to put their name on it then it is a pretty good guess that they made sure the finished product was built to a high standard.

The next level up would be a sidelock. A well made British sidelock is the epitome of the classic handling bird gun.

If you are considering purchasing your first English gun then I would recommend you start with a boxlock in high condition. After you shoot and use it a while then you will have a better understanding of just where you may want to go from there. You might end up fully satisfied with what you have. If not, then you have the option of selling/trading it off or keeping it for a rainy day gun. One good thing about British guns is that they tend to hold their value.

Purchasing used shotguns can be tricky. You can end up buying a very nice looking gun with barrels that have been serviced to the point that they are very thin. The bores can be out of specification (proof). There can be rust hidden under the ribs. The chambers could have been opened from 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" by an amateur using a hand drill. A near new condition basic boxlock is a safe start till you learn more. And, of course, having a knowledgeable person look at any gun you are considering also helps.

I will not attempt a more detailed discussion of the various brands, features, and merits of British shotguns. Many, many books have been written on the subject and I am far from expert compared to any one of them.




.
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: North of the Columbia | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With Quote
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CSMC RBL!!!

If you can live with a single trigger then it's a Browning BSS "Sporter"!

JW
 
Posts: 2554 | Registered: 23 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Some good information guys. Don't care about shooting steel shot, probably 26" barrels, most likely boxlock and don't need engraving although would be a nice bonus. I like the double triggers because my other double shotgun only has a single trigger and need to practice on double triggers since purchasing my double rifle which has double triggers. Thanks again for all the info, just what I needed. Would appreciate a email if anyone hears of a nice gun FS.
 
Posts: 725 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 March 2007Reply With Quote
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One of the best buys today is a smith and wesson Gold elite SxS.They discontinued them. There we're built in turkey are selling for $1200-$1500. They are beauttiful shotguns for the $ IMHO.


"shoot quick but take your time"
 
Posts: 451 | Location: drummond island MI USA | Registered: 03 March 2006Reply With Quote
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sevenmagltd. - I sent you a PM




.
 
Posts: 10900 | Location: North of the Columbia | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With Quote
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There are many good ideas listed above. If you want a S X S 20 b. that will fire American 2 & 3/4 inch ammo be careful if purchasing a used firearm. Make certain it is proofed/safe for high pressure loads and 2 & 3/4 inch chambers. If 2.5 inch chambers are OK with you, you will probably need to buy the lower pressure loads such as those from RST or imported loads-Gamebore , etc. I really like double trigger firearms. Listed below are several sites offering used firearms-American, British, etc. A light shotgun is most comfortable shooting light loads!
If you are looking for a new shotgun and if you can attend the NRA Convention, I believe it will be held in Pittsburg, PA in April 2011,You will have the ooportunity to see and handle mannnnnny new firearms! Getting to see and handle the firearm is always a plus.
Beretta is another choice, 20 + years ago I purchased a new S X S 12 b. with double triggers, 26" barrels, IC & Mod., 2 & 3/4 inch chambers and it had a semi beavertail forearm, which I really like when shooting clays, doves, etc. I also like the Grip Swell gloves www.GripSwell.com for my splinter foream shotguns.

http://www.woodcockhill.com/
http://www.doublegun.com/
http://www.williamlarkinmoore.com/
http://www.vintagedoubles.com/index.php
http://www.champlinarms.com/
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/

Good luck and keep us advised.
Jim
 
Posts: 339 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 06 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Check with William Larkin Moore....in Scottsdale, Az. I bought my Armas Garbi from them, but they have many others, and a good many used as well.


"When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all."
Theodore Roosevelt
 
Posts: 4263 | Location: Pinetop, Arizona | Registered: 02 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I dont shoot the S x S that well but I do pretty well with the singles, autos, stack barrels. Of course the Italian guuns are good and popular now too, the London guns are best for a lot of reasons.The Parkers and the LC's are there but they dont fit some too well.

But how about the Winchester 21? In 20 those have got to be excellent, and tough. They seem to retain their value well. I am going to get a 21 one day to round out my Winchesters. But with everything else now, and hunting, I will move it's acquistion to the back a bit. But it be worth looking into in your case now.
 
Posts: 1440 | Location: Houston, Texas USA | Registered: 16 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Grenadier:
You can find some basic but decent English workhorses on the second hand market. Many are out there in excellent condition and you can even find some several years old that have been fired little or never.

For an entry level gun, I suggest you look at the Birmingham made Webley & Scott models 700 and 720 that were made into the 1980s. The 700 is most often encountered in 12 gauge but was also made in 20. The model 720 was a little bit fancier 20 gauge.

The next step up would be to go to a London made boxlock. Holland & Holland's Northwood and nicer Cavalier models are very well made and carry a well known cache'. There are several other well known London brands like Westley-Richards, Churchill, Charles Osborne, and William Evans but you can often find a very good gun made by one of the lesser known British brands. It is also important to realize that it was quite common for London gun makers to hire out work to Birmingham gun makers. The result is that you can find yourself with a very nicely done gun with a London brand that was almost entirely made in Birmingham and then finished in London. Nevertheless, if a good London firm was willing to put their name on it then it is a pretty good guess that they made sure the finished product was built to a high standard.

The next level up would be a sidelock. A well made British sidelock is the epitome of the classic handling bird gun.

If you are considering purchasing your first English gun then I would recommend you start with a boxlock in high condition. After you shoot and use it a while then you will have a better understanding of just where you may want to go from there. You might end up fully satisfied with what you have. If not, then you have the option of selling/trading it off or keeping it for a rainy day gun. One good thing about British guns is that they tend to hold their value.

Purchasing used shotguns can be tricky. You can end up buying a very nice looking gun with barrels that have been serviced to the point that they are very thin. The bores can be out of specification (proof). There can be rust hidden under the ribs. The chambers could have been opened from 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" by an amateur using a hand drill. A near new condition basic boxlock is a safe start till you learn more. And, of course, having a knowledgeable person look at any gun you are considering also helps.

I will not attempt a more detailed discussion of the various brands, features, and merits of British shotguns. Many, many books have been written on the subject and I am far from expert compared to any one of them.


Thank you for this post. It was very informative.

ddj


The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back - Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 966 | Location: Northwest Iowa | Registered: 10 June 2008Reply With Quote
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7MAG, Roy?

Have you considered the CZ USA Bobwhite? Check out Budgunshop.com for good deals.


"A Lone Hunter is the Best Hunter..."
 
Posts: 426 | Location: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: 25 June 2009Reply With Quote
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You will find it very difficult to find a good condition English gun in 2 3/4" 20 Gauge let alone ANYTHING in 3" 20 Gauge.

The 2 3/4" 20 Gauge really just wasn't a common option in England.

My father had one, a side-by-side G E Lewis boxlock ejector with 26" barrels but most 20 Gauge guns here were made for the 2 1/2" cartridge firing 7/8 ounce or 13/16 ounce.

As to a Webley 700 I'd actually think you better served with an Ugartachea FWIw as the Webley 700 wasn't ever a "best" boxlock in any way.

They also are not as easy to re-joint if tired as something like an Ugartachea.

Westley Richards BTW were strictly a Birmingham operation even though, like Webley and Greener they had a retail outlet in London.

I guess that the epitomy of a 26" barrel English gun would be a Charles Hellis. These were made up until the late 1950s.
 
Posts: 6824 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: 18 November 2007Reply With Quote
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If it's of any interest, I've got a 1934 Hollis 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (NOT to be confused with Hellis) 26" barrelled non ejector for sale here in SA.

I've looked into costs of couriering it to the US and they're prohibitive but I think that it might be possible for someone who's returning home after a hunt to take it home with them...... I'd probably have to have someone deliver the gun and export licence to the buyer/transporter at the airport and I've no idea what would have to happen at the other end but it might be possible.

The gun is as tight as a drum, reasonably straight stocked and I'll take US$750 for it.















 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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I'm not sure if you are looking for a British gun, or just one with a straight stock.
As someone mentioned, the Smith and Wessons are very nice. You can find some good prices on Weatherby SXS, they are imported from Italy, in the same price range.
I just picked up an Ithaca/SKB 280E for $1000, these are getting harder to find for less than $12-$1400. These had chrome bores, and are ok for steel if that is an issue.
Beretta 470 and 471 Silverhawks, both available with a straight stock. These have screw in chokes, not traditional, but my 470 is my "go to" upland bird gun. Open tubes for grouse/woodcock, tighter for pheasant.
The BSS was a very nice gun, but getting pricey in 20ga these days.
Handle some guns if you get a chance. I've seen some "bargain" price imports point handle like a two-by-four.
A good quality SXS that fits you well should feel almost like pointing your finger.
 
Posts: 1981 | Location: South Dakota | Registered: 22 August 2004Reply With Quote
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