has anybody seen any of these yet. I saw a couple o/u and they looked pretty good, just that the barrels were sideways

I think those CZ sxs are made by Huglu for CZ.

I just bought a CZ 712 semi-auto and for $300 I'm impressed. Somewhat of a copy of a Beretta 303 with a different gas system, nice wood, stock fits me well, came with 5 Beretta style choke tubes, alloy receiver, chrome line barrel.

Also made by Huglu in Turkey.

And the CZ O/U's I've seen and handled look pretty good, I might need one in 28 gauge.

The 20 gauge version of the semi-auto, the 720, looks pretty good too. They need to make one in 28 gauge now.

I have 400 rounds through the 712 without a malfunction so far.

Saw a couple of these today. The Bobwhite in 28 gauge with straight grip took my breath away. I hear great things about these guns, then I hear guys say RUN from Turkish shotgusn. I don't know whom to believe.

I looked at them when they were imported by Huglu USA (DeHaan?) and later when they were imported by Armsco (still DeHaan?) and didn't buy one because I was a little leery, both because some had had poor experiences and because the importer/marketer/warrantor kept changing. But they sure do look and feel nice, especially for the $$, and some people apparently had great luck with them.

Now that CZ-USA's the importer, I'm more interested. In fact, I asked the local gun shop to get me a price on a Ringneck in 28 ga. just this week. And I think Gander Mtn might actually stock them (they had the Armsco Huglu's sporadically in the past).

-WSJ

Got a quote on a Ringneck 28 ga. SxS today: $949. About what I expected (MSRP is $1045) but I sure hate to buy something sight unseen rather than off a rack! A grand may not be all that much for a side by side (or to some buyers) but it's still a chunk of change to me!

Fortunately there were none immediately available so I can put off the agony for a few weeks. If anyone else buys one in the meantime, please post here with your impressions. Thanks. -WSJ

More update: Went to Gander Mtn today and found a NIB Armsco Huglu (Ringneck/S2) 28 ga., color case hardened, no ducks, with 28 in. barrels clearanced for $649. Didn't like the barrel length but otherwise it looked like a deal.

Also handled a CZ USA Ringneck in 20 ga., same gun with 26 in. barrels & CZ logo for $749. Asked the helpful folks at GM (all one of him, on a Saturday afternoon in August, right around the corner from hunting season, and working his a** off; idiotic management) about price & availability of 28 ga.: none at any other GM stores and none at their distributer. Price was MSRP of $1045.

Checked the Dehaan Shotgun website (I didn't know until this morning that they were even importing still but they are and are selling direct only, with shipment to FFL). Their price, including shipping, is $925.

What's nice about their deal is they offer a 7 day review period (as long as you don't shoot the gun) in which you can return if you're not satisfied. Warranty is 2 years vs CZ's 5 years. Purportedly the gun's a slightly better or higher QC'd piece than CZ but that sounds like marketing to me. But I plan to call them Monday to check availability and to see if the S2 can be got without gold ducks (just doesn't seem right on a sub-gauge gun). -WSJ

Can't attest to long term reliability, but my recently purchased CZ Bobwhite in .410 bore is a nice little gun. I didn't want to sink a bunch of money into a small bore, so am going to give it a try.

It is a scaled frame, so one would have to go to perhaps a Merkel or Beretta EELL to get a properly proportioned gun. Mine goes a tad over five pounds (straight stock w/ 26" barrels) and is a pleasant handling gun. My uses are small game with very little clay shooting.

So far, it works well and the barrels are properly regulated. The fit and finish is quite good for a $700 shotgun, especially a SXS. The double triggers are about #5-#6 pounds. The firing pins seem to be well centered and I've have yet had a fail to fire on several brands of shells. Extractors of course. Non-automatic safety, which I prefer. The case hardening is nice for a gun in this price range, and my preference for a traditional shotgun. Very light engraving, nothing gaudy.

One of the reasons I bought the gun is that the stock on mine appears to have zero cast. I am a left handed shooter, so that can be an issue. The triggers are not scooped for a right hander, so another reason to give it a try. The stock does not have a lot of drop although I have not measured it. It is rather plain but no obvious defects or knots can be found.

I have read of poor quality control in the Huglu guns, some soft parts, and might experience it. Thus far mine seems to be a good one. I would suspect if one gets a good one, it would be a fine hunting gun.

The CZ, Hatfield, DeHaan, and Kimber are all manufactured by the same folks to my understanding.

Although I hope I don't use it, the five year warranty might be of some benefit.

It won't compete with any of the higher end shotguns, nor was it ever intended to be. Only time will tell.

JB in SC: You don't happen to be in the Clemson area, do you? I heard from a friend of mine there last week that he was shooting clay birds with his newly acquired Franchi 28 ga. We got to talking about SxS's and mentioned he was shooting with someone who had a new CZ SxS 410. He didn't mention whether it was the Ringneck or Bobwhite but I'm wondering if it might have been you and your's.

Small world? -WSJ

I am in the area, but it wasn't me

I did get to look the gun over very carefully before buying. I would highly recommend doing so. For some reason, all the CZ Bobwhites I've seen were in the sub gauges. And all looked nicely done.

I hope mine works out well, if not I'm not out a bunch of money.

Yeah, that's my biggest hurdle to ordering a Ringneck through the local gun shop - that it'll get here and I'll be dissatisfied with wood, fit & finish, etc., and stuck with it.

Wish Gander Mtn would get one in! Or I may consider the DeHaan option. -WSJ

DeHaan might be the best course of action, barring finding a CZ you like. I would prefer casedhardended rather the the silver finish, but otherwise the guns appear virtually identical.

From what I've read, he backs his guns 100%.

I talked to DeHaan on Monday. The S2 (Ringneck) is available at the listed price. However all of theirs have gold ducks, even on the case colored. I guess I could live with that. Now it's decision time . . .
-WSJ

As info, just checked out Sports South's website. No CZ Bobwhites in sub gauges in stock. I had heard that CZ had something like 3,000 on order.

http://www.gunshop.com/crosnoe_guns.htm

Check under shotgun tab

I bought an S2 from DeHaan and have been extremely happy. At first it would miss fire, but I called Mark and he sent me a brand new one that he said he personally test fired a couple dozen times. I would buy from him again. It is a good value for a great looking gun. You can tell the engraving is gone by hand, the wood looks great and the blueing is very deep. BTW the gold ducks look great, but then I am a duck fanatic. PM me if you have more questions.

I'm a duck fanatic too but don't anticipate using the SxS 28 ga. too often! That's work for the plastic/camo 870. How 'bout a quail or woodcock or snipe or grouse on the 28 & 410? Yeah, I know, picky picky. -WSJ

My Bobwhite is a 410 and it limited out on doves yesterday afternoon. That was the first time I took it out. No problems so far...just wish it had ejectors!

I saw a .410 Ringneck in a store last week and was so taken by it that I immediately wanted the gun in a 28 gauge. The clerk said that they unfortunately had had 28's on backorder for a couple of months. So I called a personal friend of mine who is also a dealer (but 250 miles away). He found one that afternoon and ordered it for me. It came in yesterday, but the catch is that he likes it so much that he's going to take it out to the dove fields today, in my absence, and "wring" it out. I just hope he shoots all of the misses out of it so there won't be anything but "hits" left in it when I get my hands on it.

Anyone had any more experience with the perfomance of these little side-by-sides?

Stonecreek
I would hopefully assume your friend then gives you a discount for he is selling you a used gun.

quote:

Originally posted by hikerbum:
Stonecreek
I would hopefully assume your friend then gives you a discount for he is selling you a used gun.

Well, if you call his cost down to the penny a discount, then I'd say I'm getting a pretty good discount. But there's acutally method to my madness: You see, if he takes it out to shoot it and finds some kind of defect, then he'll feel obligated to run interference with the distributor on my behalf! We're long-time friends and I've passed more than a few bargains his way over the years, so it all works out.

By the way, got an email from him this morning: "You will like your new 28 ga. It shot like a dream but I still can't hit those whitewings". See, I told you he could shoot all the "misses" out of it for me!

I think the new CZ shotguns are "decent" but I don't think they live up to CZ's usual quality. My 720 was brand new and had to be sent back twice before they replaced it with a new one. Then after putting 1500 rounds or so through it, it broke again and I had to order new parts. I think the O/U's and SXS's are in the same boat, i.e. you get what you pay for. It's a decent gun but I don't think it will stand the test of time under high volume shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Kingfisher:
I think the new CZ shotguns are "decent" but I don't think they live up to CZ's usual quality. My 720 was brand new and had to be sent back twice before they replaced it with a new one. Then after putting 1500 rounds or so through it, it broke again and I had to order new parts. I think the O/U's and SXS's are in the same boat, i.e. you get what you pay for. It's a decent gun but I don't think it will stand the test of time under high volume shooting.

Neither the 712/720 series nor the OU/SS series are made by CZ, and neither are made by the same manufacturer, either. So comparing one to the other is like comparing a Motorola cell phone to a Motorola TV -- they're made by different people for different purposes and may or may not compare favorably to other cell phones or TV's, but can't be compared to one another just because they are distributed by Motorola.

Just because a Remington Spartan O/U (made in Russia) is a bit crude, it doesn't say anything about a Remington 700C from their U.S. custom shop.

BTW, the outward appearance of the fit, finish, and materials on the Huglu-made CZ shotguns seems several cuts above the fit, finish, and materials of the CZ-produced rifles. Time will tell.

Stonecreek I know they're not made by CZ, which is why I said that I didn't think they lived up to the CZ brand, but are you sure they're not all made by the same company? I'm pretty sure that they're all made by Huglu. God only knows how many times I've been wrong before though. To your point about the fit and finish, I agree, but I think what's on the inside is where they're lacking. My 720 is a slick looking shotgun at first glance, but the internals were rough as hell and didn't hold up. My fear is that the O/U's and SXS's suffer the same affliction.

Here's a link to the original press release when they started importing the shotguns.

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/industrynews/cz9_1_04.html

I handled one of the CZ's today. Sportsmans Warehouse had a 28ga. and a 20ga. for $699 each. My first impression is that they are a well made shotgun for the money. I really liked the 28ga., straight stock, double trigger gun. The wood was not fancy but plain but nice looking. I may buy one in the near future....made by Huglu.

Terry, I'm guessing you're in the Austin area somewhere? (I am too) S.W. is generally pretty proud of their stuff, if you check around you might be able to find that shotgun cheaper. I don't know if Cabela's carries them or not but it might be worth the trip.

Kingfisher,
Yep, I live in Round Rock, however I pass Cabela's on my way to the lease. I'll check there also. It will be awhile before I get one though....

quote:

Originally posted by Kingfisher:
Terry, I'm guessing you're in the Austin area somewhere? (I am too) S.W. is generally pretty proud of their stuff, if you check around you might be able to find that shotgun cheaper. I don't know if Cabela's carries them or not but it might be worth the trip.

Sportsman's started off looking like a bargain. I went in several months ago when they were having a 10% off of everything sale and was impressed with their regular prices, especially with another 10% off. Bought several hundred dollars worth of various items that were too good to pass up. But whoa! Went in again in a couple of months and they had marked everything up to McBride levels! You would have thought that the Cabela's competition would have pushed prices the other way.

At any rate, if Sportsman's is getting $699 for the 28 ga, then that's still pretty good. The 28 lists at more than a hundred dollars higher than the 20 and 12. In fact, at $699 the 28 would only be about $60 over the distributor prices I've seen, so if you're interested in a 28 Bobwhite you might want to grab that one.

quote:

Originally posted by wsj:


Checked the Dehaan Shotgun website (I didn't know until this morning that they were even importing still but they are and are selling direct only, with shipment to FFL). Their price, including shipping, is $925.

What's nice about their deal is they offer a 7 day review period (as long as you don't shoot the gun) in which you can return if you're not satisfied. Warranty is 2 years vs CZ's 5 years. Purportedly the gun's a slightly better or higher QC'd piece than CZ but that sounds like marketing to me. But I plan to call them Monday to check availability and to see if the S2 can be got without gold ducks (just doesn't seem right on a sub-gauge gun). -WSJ

I purchased a 28ga S2 in the "Full Scroll" pattern (no ducks)

It has the 28" gloss barrels with the "English" stock (straight grip)

It handles great (5 1/2#s) and is a real "looker" I broke 19/25 trap with it using the Imp. Modified tube. Challenger has a potent load (3/4oz @ 1330fps) Grafs carries them.

He may have some left, Mark got 12 of them around the first of September.

Don't drag your feet though as when those 12 are gone it will be a while before he gets more.

He has to order 12 identical guns @ a time.

Finally got a look at my CZ 28 Ringneck this weekend, and shot a few doves with it. I'm pleased with the fit, finish, and general appearance. The action is understandably a bit stiff as the gun is new, but it seems very tight and well-fitted. The trigger is crisp, and the safety/selector is amply smooth. I particularly like the look of the case hardened side plates.

Having practically never shot a SxS before, I had a bit of trouble deciding which barrel to look down , but a few close, quick birds taught me to just "shoot" and I found that it will drop doves just like a stacked barrel if you do your part.

One note: Had a 150 lb wild hog emerge from the maize stalks just 25 yards from my stand . Even with both barrels, a 28 gauge loaded with 3/4 oz # 8's is a bit light for porkers, I found.

I used a cheapy Baikal 28 gauge on wild roosters over the weekend , the result being I am sold on the little guns. If you could get the 28 CZ/Dehaan side by sides with ejectors , I'd be reaching for my checkbook again........

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
I used a cheapy Baikal 28 gauge on wild roosters over the weekend , the result being I am sold on the little guns. If you could get the 28 CZ/Dehaan side by sides with ejectors , I'd be reaching for my checkbook again........

sdgunslinger: I abhor ejectors in a break-open gun. They offer little more speed in reloading and just cause you to go searching for your hulls in the weeds and grass, or worse, bloody your nose with a ballistic missle. They also necessarily make working the action harder because you're cocking the ejector springs. I think if you tried an extractor gun you would get used to it and prefer it.

quote:

Having practically never shot a SxS before, I had a bit of trouble deciding which barrel to look down bewildered

I was told to just look at the bird and the gun will follow. I still do this and it works for me.

The Huglu OU's and SXS's that I have seen did not have very good wood to metal fit at all with gaps at the receiver.

I am all set for the moment with the little Bernadelli that I snagged. Everyone likes it's IC and F chokes.

I am looking at bird guns now and am more interested. Before that I would look, buy a rifle and take the Ithaka 37 bird hunting.

In 2000 I imported 13 Huglu O/U and SxS shotguns of various calibers. The bottom line is while they are essentially hand made they are made with shitty uninfluenced not well trained hands.

The metalergy is shit, I wore one out at 3000 rounds shooting skeet (this is a tiny number for a shotgun) had a receiver crack, and a tang crack. The wood on the CZ guns is also shit. Think about where these guns are coming from. The ones I imported looked like heaven, marblecake root wood stuff.

I paid $180-300 each new in Turkey your going to pay $800 here. I hand selected every gun I bought, your going to get what you find.

Bottom line buy a Russian hunk of steel or save your money for a Beretta or some other Italian gun.

PS The ones I brought over have long since been sold. Sorry!

All I am saying is don't fall for this bullshit from CZ.All I am saying is don't fall for this bullshit from CZ.

Stonecreek, I agree that extractors open easier and may have little more to offer when hunting most birds but I shot an extractor Sterlingworth at wild chukars all last year and there were way too many times that I was pulling shells out and putting them in my vest when more birds were getting up in range. For wild chukars at least I have found that my new ejector Sterlingworth offers much faster reloading and hence more shooting. Chukars just don't always get up all together. There are often times when stragglers will get up sometime soon after the bulk of the covey has lifted off. Faster reloading equals more shooting and briefly looking for the ejected shells is a very small price to pay for more shooting. I've gotten used to just tipping my gun slightly sideways and down when opening so my empties are seldom more then 3 or 4 feet away.

Larry

Stonecreek......I've had a couple of extractor guns years ago , and for most of the hunting I do I much prefer ejectors . Pheasants often 'trickle flush" , so very fast reloading can often put a few more birds in the bag . Or you might be blocking the end of some cover late season and have 2 dozen roosters come over you , strung out.......a repeater might actually be a better choice for some of these situations , but I just prefer the handling of a double gun , and ejectors do help some to even up the firepower .

Yeah, know what you guys mean about flushing birds in coveys and singles. I nearly always shoot an auto at quail and pheasants for that reason. Most of my shotgunning is for doves, where quick reloading is of little importance, but keeping up with your spent hulls is. As a result, I prefer extractors in my two-tube guns.

Read the comments of D-99 above, and hope that my experience with the Huglu-made gun is different. Certainly in terms of fit and finish it is, because there is nothing to complain about in that department. I would prefer a little different stain on the wood, but the wood itself, while fairly plain, is perfectly acceptable and the checkering better than average. The metallurgy is unknown at this point, but a couple of hundred shells fired in the initial outing hasn't loosened up the new-gun stiffness yet, so it appears that the steel is at least acceptable. Time will tell. As I mentioned earlier, the trigger is quite crisp, which is usually a kind of "bell weather" indicator for gun quality. Maybe CZ has tightened up the QC for guns it is accepting from Huglu?

Stonecreek, I hope you're able to put lots of rounds through that gun with no problems but if you do encounter problems don't be shy, please let us all know.

Larry

Am always glad to provide the benefit of my experience if a gun doesn't live up to expectations, as it will soon pass into the ownership of someone with lesser standards. However, I don't shoot much other than doves these days, and I like to trade off with several other shotguns in my dove hunting. As a result, this CZ SxS probably won't get more than about 200-250 shots in a good year, so it would likely be a while before potential problems with soft metal would show up.