A friend asked me to keep an eye out for two youth model 20 gauge semi-auto's or over/unders for under $500 a piece. He needs them for his two sons for use in 4H sporting clays events. I didn't know anything in that price range existed until I searched the net and came across the CZ 720 youth model. Does anyone have any experience with these shotguns? CZ's website says they are made in Turkey, and that they are great (of course they're gonna say that). Does anyone have any other ideas for shotguns that I should keep my eye out for along these lines? Thanks in advance.
Matt

Look for a Browning Maxus, Silver or Gold sporting in 20 gauge. They will be the softest shooting around. The Winchester SX2 as well!

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Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Look for a Browning Maxus, Silver or Gold sporting in 20 gauge. They will be the softest shooting around. The Winchester SX2 as well!

The operative words in my post are "youth model", i.e. shorter butt stock with a comb that lines up for a kids smaller head/shorter neck etc. Thanks for the advice anyway.

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Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Look for a Browning Maxus, Silver or Gold sporting in 20 gauge. They will be the softest shooting around. The Winchester SX2 as well!

The operative words in my post are "youth model", i.e. shorter butt stock with a comb that lines up for a kids smaller head/shorter neck etc. Thanks for the advice anyway.

Generally, the only difference between a "youth model" and a "normal" model is the LOP.

You can buy one ready to go or get a "regular" and alter the stock yourself, install a recoil pad when you're done. Most will come with shims for gunfit...

O/U's have plenty of unnecessary recoil for a kid or smaller statured shooter; stay away from them for brand new shooters if you care about them enjoying the game and being successful. Autos are lighter which is a concern for the folks you are talking about.

The absolute best choice to start a new shooter is a 12ga Auto that is soft shooting. 1 ounce or 7/8 ounce reduced training loads can be used and still give the shooter plenty of pattern density for success. I have shot 7/8 oz loads and broken 60 yard crossers and trap targets so long you wouldn't believe it. The 12 ga. auto will have less recoil than a 20 ga O/U and a better pattern.

There is no softer shooting auto than the Browning Gold. They are not in production any longer, but I'm sure you can find one new somewhere or used.

I know a little bit about this.

Then again, do whatever you want.

Remington made a Youth Model 1100 in 20 gauge. Short LOP and 21" barrel. I started both of my sons on one. I plugged the magazine so that it would not accept any shells so it was in effect a single shot. With this adaptation I did not have to worry about where the thing was pointed after one shot. I could correct muzzle control without concern for other's safety, knowing that after one shot it was EMPTY. I think it was the best of my choices at the time it was light, short, and soft in recoil and easy to point. As they grew I bought a full length butt stock. Made a pretty fair quail gun. People ask what age to start a youngster and my answer is as soon as they can be trusted to follow instructions. Mine were 8 and 9.

the rem 11-87 youth model lines up well for my short wife, but not at all for me. The Turkish made Weatherby youth semi has a stock that lines up for me, but my wife looks at the top of the pistol grip when she shoulders it. Apparently some youth stocks are actually taylored to the small in stature and some are not. However, not all full size stocks fit all full size people either, I guess.

I think that I have owend at least one of all of these as my kids have grown up. Depending on how old the kids are, two things are important that the stock fits and that the gun is light enough for the kids to handle. I ended up the the Mossberg 500 youth models. They are not exactly Holland & Hollands (or even Berettas) but they work, the stock dimensions fit kids (including an inch spacer for later) and they are the lightest of the bunch by about 3/4 pound. I used fiochi 20 ga trainer shells. (which don't function in an auto).

THe overall length of a gun is important. Autos and pumps are typically 5 to 6 inches longer than a single shot or o/u with the same barrel length. Cutting an auto's barrel back to make it the same length as an o/u creates a heap of muzzle blast, which is potentially damaging to a young shooter's ears, as well as causing more problem than recoil. Although the o/u does not absorb any of the recoil in cycling the action like an auto does, shooting very light loads will make up for this.

I located a well-used 28 gauge o/u for my grandson who has shot it at doves for two seasons now, starting when he was seven. Its 26" barrels are long enough to provide proper ballistics and reasonable muzzle blast attenuation, and its overall length and weight make it much more friendly to a small-framed shooter and contributes to better shooting. (My grandson pulled off two 1-2 doubles on doves this last fall on consecutive days!)

If your friend insists on buying new guns, I don't think he's going to find a 28 gauge for the $500 figure, but CZ does offer a fairly decent o/u 28 for not too much more than that. BTW: The 28 gauge will "kill" 99 clays for every 100 that a 20 "kills", and the cost of ammunition is even cheaper than for a 20 if you reload.

One of the most important factors in starting any beginning shotgunner regardless of age is to maximize their enjoyment of the sport.

Why?

So they actually WANT to do it some more!

So what factors will make shooting a shotgun more enjoyable to any beginner?

1. Success. Actually being able to hit the target.

A 3/4 ounce load of #8's in a 28 gauge has about 100 less pellets than a 1 ounce load that can be fired in a soft-shooting 12 gauge Auto. That's 50% more pellets.

A 1 ounce training load fired from a 12 gauge Auto has a pattern that is more dense than a 28 gauge choked the same, therefore, it has a longer effective range.

Another factor in improving success is the weight of the shotgun and its dynamics of motion. A 12 gauge auto will be easier to move than an over/under. I know that 28 gauge O/U's may weigh somewhere near a 12 Auto, but I bet the cut down stocked auto with a 26" barrel will weigh less simply because of its construction. An O/U also may have POI problems (both barrels shooting in the same place).

Gun Fit. Fitting an O/U to specific shooters can be extremely costly. Not many come standard with shims for gunfit like most of today's autoloaders. Having a gun that shoots where you look is paramount to success. Try going to the range with your rifle and a new scope mounted on it and just shooting at targets without sighting it in. Stock fit for your shotgun is like sighting it in and is more easily accomplished with an autoloader.

Recoil. A gas operated 12 gauge auto shooting a 1 ounce training load will actually have less recoil than a 28 gauge 3/4 oz shell fired in an O/U.

Cost. Autos cost less than O/U's

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BTW: The 28 gauge will "kill" 99 clays for every 100 that a 20 "kills",....

If you really want to experience the handicap of a 28 gauge, take one on the Sporting Clays course. When you're done, go shoot the same course with your 1 ounce 12 gauge and tell me which score was better!
In any NSCA tournament main event, any gauge up to 12 is allowed. You won't see anyone competing with their 28. I wonder why?


Too many folks start new shooters wrong. Unless they have skills to overcome their poor instructors, they get discouraged and quit if they don't have early success, get beat up by recoil, or get worn out phyisically with heavy equipment.

Start'em right, and they're hooked for life...

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Originally posted by Lawdog:
Remington made a Youth Model 1100 in 20 gauge. Short LOP and 21" barrel. I started both of my sons on one. I plugged the magazine so that it would not accept any shells so it was in effect a single shot. With this adaptation I did not have to worry about where the thing was pointed after one shot. I could correct muzzle control without concern for other's safety, knowing that after one shot it was EMPTY. I think it was the best of my choices at the time it was light, short, and soft in recoil and easy to point. As they grew I bought a full length butt stock. Made a pretty fair quail gun. People ask what age to start a youngster and my answer is as soon as they can be trusted to follow instructions. Mine were 8 and 9.

+1, Great guns and parts supply anywhere make a good starting setup. If you want a pump get a 870 youth model or a 20 guage model and you can use light loads to start with.

A pump 12 or 20 is absolutely the worst choice to start any new shooter, especially a kid or female.

Recoil.

There are much better choices for soft-shooting autos than the 1100!

A heck of alot of youths were introduced to the sport with those two shotguns over the years! I've saw alot of kids do just fine with light loads. Heck the first shotgun i ever fired was an old side by side that kicked the dog snot out of me! Know why i remember it? Cause it was fun and i wanted to shoot it again. Kids are tougher than you think they are.