So nobody here knows anything about the various ribs found on shotguns!?!?!?

Erik D.

Gerald its a really good question.

I used to think totally Churchill, never ever look at the gun (including the rib). I do still think that but after trying a fex different guns I've come to Pete Blakeley's line of thinking on this: I don't look at the barrels or the rib directly but I do pick them up to some extent. Whether this is 'subconciously' or in my periphial vision I don't know, but I am aware of them at some level as I shoot. Some people find certain shotguns (two sxs barrels or a single) or types of ribs easier to use than others, so at some level they must be aware of them. Even using Churchill as an example if we are not aware of the ribs at all why did he design a special rib for his guns? All his emphasis on his special ribs implies that he felt the ribs make a difference when shooting even when you don't aim with them.

Hope this helps, its only my currents thoughts (which are subject to change ).

Duane:

I hasten to say that I am not really so far apart from you. (I did say that a rib is useful where the drop is considerable)In fact, I am not disputing anything you have said.

Your comments about your customers closing one eye or also seeming to try to "aim" a shotgun exactly point up what a shotgun shooter needs to be educated about. Shooting with both eyes open and pointing the shotgun I still say to this day is more important than "fit". ( I'll sneak in a comment here. A shooter who knows both precepts can "adjust" the shotgun accordingly. I shot ruffed grouse with a Win. Model 97, a hammer pump, 28" barrel when I was about 15. I never again thereafter shot ruffs so well. I simply "adjusted" to the shotgun - but I never forgot to shoot with both eyes open and, of course, to point.

Chasseur:

You did use a key word. "peripheral". I guess we all have that look out of the bottom corner of our eyes. (Don't we just simply "hunch up" (the shoulder) to lift the barrel if we know in those milliseconds that we are pointing below) I must confess that ribs made little impression on me for most of my shotgunning years. I freely admit that I was a product of shooting shotguns long before ribs. I'll go further and say that I think that "beads" are an abomination and do nothing but to encourage an idea of "aiming" at the flying target.

I am completely with you on beads, almost competely useless. I think their only use is that for begining shooters it can useful when getting them to correctly mount the gun before they start shooting (and to check the drop of comb on a new gun if you don't have a tape measure...)

I do think ribs are generally speaking overated (to give you an example of how little I think of ribs I had to go look at my SxS that I shoot regularly to see what type of rib it has...). I think that gunfit, weight, balance, feel etc matter more than the rib, for shooting. But I think some people might feel more comfortable with different types of rib than others.

A raised rib requires a shooter to raise the rear site(his eye) in order to look over the top of the barrels, this in turn means that the shotgun will shoot to a slightly higher POI which means that you don't have to "cover" as much of the bird in order to center it in the pattern, which will allow you to be a better shot because you can see what you are shooting. Double beads are an alignment tool used by trap shooters- they can be used to tell how well a shotgun fits, if they are not stacked properly when you throw your shotgun to your shoulder, you need to do some fitting of the stock to be able to shoot instinctivly with any degree of success. Fit is everything with a shotgun.

Excellent post Duane!

I don't trap shoot so I forgot about raised ribs and high shooting guns.

Chasseur:

I have read Duane's posts before and respect his thoughts. However I respectfully submit that using a shotgun at trap (and I have, very enjoyably)is not the same function of a shotgun as at rising birds. To begin with,unlike the case of the rising game bird, the clay "bird" is not increasing in speed of flight. Also unlike the case of the rising game bird,the trap shooter knows exactly when the "bird" will rise. He "calls" for the bird. Trap shooters can get themselves "fitted" (and the very serious ones do)but game shooters accommodate themselves to the shotgun they are using at the moment. I guess what I'm trying to say in a roundabout fashion is that game bird shooters do not enjoy the luxury of sufficient time to "set" themselves. A rib, as I said, is useful where drop is involved (or even something so routine as the way a guy's neck was made,i.e., long neck or short) I have high respect for trap shooters. (I filled out a squad in a registered shoot more than once with them)A rib is perhaps more useful in the more deliberate shooting of trap -than when a ruffed grouse goes up almost under your feet and is weaving and ducking and you have perhaps 2-3 seconds to get on him. That's when I say that we should be obeying the fundamentals of shotgun shooting. Pointing like an extension of our finger. Ribs and beads never seemed to be in the "sight picture".

Chasseur:

I have read Duane's posts before and respect his thoughts. However I respectfully submit that using a shotgun at trap (and I have, very enjoyably)is not the same function of a shotgun as at rising birds. To begin with,unlike the case of the rising game bird, the clay "bird" is not increasing in speed of flight. Also unlike the case of the rising game bird,the trap shooter knows exactly when the "bird" will rise. He "calls" for the bird. Trap shooters can get themselves "fitted" (and the very serious ones do)but game shooters accommodate themselves to the shotgun they are using at the moment. I guess what I'm trying to say in a roundabout fashion is that game bird shooters do not enjoy the luxury of sufficient time to "set" themselves. A rib, as I said, is useful where drop is involved (or even something so routine as the way a guy's neck was made,i.e., long neck or short) I have high respect for trap shooters. I filled out a squad with sdome very good ones. I'm only saying that a rib is perhaps more useful in the more deliberate shooting of trap -than when a ruffed grouse goes up almost under your feet and is weaving and ducking and yo have perhaps 2-3 seconds to get on him. That's when I say that we should be obeying the fundamentals of shotgun shooting. Pointing like an extension of our finger.

Chasseur:

Let me correct something in my last post. I read Duane's post too fast and forgot that he was also talking about game birds. I think he was talking about shooting ducks (over decoys) or perhaps about pheasants. (In over 60 years of hunting in North America, I never shot ducks over decoys but I did shoot them in "pass" shooting in Canada and I do appreciate his idea that a rib MAY allow better "pointing".(even though the "pass" shooting I did was almost like snap shooting,i.e. mallards and blacks under a full head of steam coming over the tree tops and me shooting through about a 30 foot gap in the tree tops)

Interesting post Gerald. I don't know that much about trap, I've only shot it a couple of times. I'm more a low gun skeet and sporting clays shooter. What you say makes sense to me,
about the ribs being of limited use for bird hunting, because the gun is mounted and shot much like a rifle in trap, which is not the case in bird hunting,
However, I do feel that gunfit is also important to low gun bird and clay shooting, maybe even more important. Having a gun that fits you is critical for having a consistent gun mount. Also when mounting a shooting you have less time to let you body adjust to a gun that doesn't fit, while with a premounted gun you can "fit youself" to the gun. Having a gun that fits you pays off when you don't have time to set youself I think.

On a side note, I've seen some driven pheasant shooters in the UK stock their guns to shoot high much like trap guns.

Gerald: I think the old adaage - "You are what you practice" is very applicable to shotgun shooters. Most people just don't get to expend enough ammo to "adjust" to the gun. I think back to my youth and a couple of the guys that seemed to be better shots than the rest of us were maybe just lucky enough to have a shotgun that fit them. I went hunting with one of my old pals who was considered a "dead eye" with his old 870, and He can't seem to hit anything with his new shotgun- blames steel shot, recoil, etc. and I wish He would just let me tinker with that fancy adjustable for drop and cast stock the maker put on the shotgun.

First off let me say that all I was attempting to convey in my post is tha the addition of a rib to an existing shotgun with no other changes will raise the point of impact for that particular shotgun because the shooter needs to raise his/her eye to see over the top of the rib, thus raiseing the rear sight and the higher poi. Ribs/beads/ or anything else that added to a shotgun barrel is not meant to be a sight, but an alignment(point of reference) device. The biggest mistake that I see with people shooting at live birds is that they try to "aim" their shotgun, and in the process they close one eye and attempt to use the bead as a sight. Teaching people to shoot with both eyes open and to keep the shotgun moving even after the shot are the two most difficult problems tha I encounter when trying to teach someone how to hit effectively with their shotgun. When I am fortunate enough to have a customer who is willing to pay for fitting his/her shotgun for competition or field use I still prefer to adjust the fit to allow the shooter to "see" the bird at all times, whether it is a rising pheasant or a diving swerveing partridge it is to the shooters advandtage to see the bird at all times, because it is very difficult to hit what you can't see. I also like to install mid rib beads so the shooter can tell if the "fit" of his gun hase changed do to different clothing, weight gain or loss, etc.

This whole answer is a little off the topic of the original question, but it seems my first answer needed some clarification.





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DuaneinND

I smiled reading your post when you mentioned your friend exchanging a shotgun he hit with for one that he now makes excuses about. Are you sure we never have met? Your friend is my life story about shooting shotguns. I have posted about shooting ruffed grouse with a Win.97 pump, 28" barrel. (The choke was modified, therefore a great duck shotgun -but I was shooting ruffed grouse in deep brush and woods at maybe 15-20 yards and had about a 3 out of 5 success ratio. Let me assure you that many guys even today in NY count themselves happy to get 5 grouse out of a box of shells! No kidding! So, of course, I traded away that shotgun. Why? I was 15 and it looked like an old antique (which it was). I still remember that I got (thanks to my father's generosity)an Ithaca "Featherlite" (Model 37) as they advertised then.There were two problems: 1)I overswung and also couldn't seem to point the shotgun right(even in snap shooting which is what most grouse shooting is,I always seemed to "hurry" too much. (Snap shooting was supposed to be "Make haste slowly") Of course, it was because the shotgun was too light-something like the problem of carrying a "light" rifle where the muzzle doesn't "hang" so that a certain amount of steadiness is lacking) 2) No one ever mentions this about bottom ejecting pumps (like the Ithaca 37) but it is distracting if you were like me who pushed out his left leg as the bird went up -and had an empty hit his thigh. I really believe that it distracted or slowed me from the second shot.

Maybe shotgunners are always searching for the perfect shotgun!