Hoe good or bad is the Winchester 101?

The original Winchester 101 made by Olin Kodensha in Japan is one of the toughest O/Us ever made. They are excellent guns in all their various permutations, assuming you get one that is designed for your shooting needs. In 12 gauge, I prefer the pigeon grade Winchoked model with 27 1/2 inch barrels, although the XTR lightweight is exactly the same gun except it has a full pistol grip stock, which some may prefer. In spite of the "lightweight" designation, the only real knock on the gun it that it is somewhat heavy. IMO this makes for better handling characteristics than some of the "wandier" guns, and certainly helps in higher volume shooting such as a hot dove corner in Mexico or South America. However, if I was going to be chukar hunting all day(I doubt it anymore, too tough for me these days), I might choose a lighter gun. Generally, it is my "go to" hunting gun, normally with IC and IM chokes in it, unless there is a specific need for other chokes, such as quail hunting(more open) or pass shooting ducks/geese(tighter). I would not hesitate to take on the bird hunting world with one in the fixed chokes of IC and Mod, though, and the fixed choke versions can be had considerably cheaper. They will outlast a Browning Citori multiple times, for instance. I have several hundred thousand rounds through one of mine and it has never failed to shoot due to broken parts. I have broken one ejector, and one ejector hammer, but that did not stop the gun from shooting. For instance, shooting blackbirds on rice fields, I shot it well over 30,000 rounds in the first 6 weeks I had it. This after wearing out a Browning Citori doing the same thing. BTW, this seems to be more of a problem with the later(80s and up) Citoris than the earlier versions, not sure why.

One thing you need to be aware of, they are tightly machined, and if you get very much trash down in the bottom of the receiver, it will not close enough to lock up and won't shoot. If for some reason, it fails to fire, this is almost certainly the reason and can usually be fixed with a quick removal of the offending trash. I've had it happen with pieces of paper wads(Mexico) and even grass from hurried reloads out of a jacket pocket.

[ 10-27-2002, 20:18: Message edited by: Gatogordo ]

Sr. Gato pretty much covered the 101. One thing I have noticed is the fixed choke guns seem to shoot very tight patterns. The one I had in 12 guage model and miss dearly, was choked f/m, you could reach way out on doves over a wheatfield even with the modified barrel.

Saludos...Frank

I owned a 101, which sadly "went away" after divorce made a mess of my finances. ( I still have my Superposed 12 Lightning Trap, though!). The 101 was SOLID, and the ejectors threw empties hard enough to make the spent hulls qualify as projectiles themselves. If I got a chance to get another, I'd take it in an instant. I once read that Winchester had a bit of legal wrangling over the fact that the 101 looked essentially to be a duplicate of the Browning Superposed. I've not seen a confirmation nor rebuttal of that article since. Anyone have any info on that aspect?

DJ

I had a Pigeon Trap model many years ago. I sold it, not because of any fault of the gun but simply because I was no longer shooting any trap. It was a nice gun, never any trouble.

I currently have a 101 in 28 gauge. Wouldn't take anything for it.

I can't say that I've ever fired the volume of shells that Gato speaks of, but I am surprised that he found the 101 more durable than the Citori. Can't argue with him, though. The Citori, while originally priced similar to the 101, doesn't bring as much on the used market, so maybe Gato's onto something.

Stonecreek:

To be clear, I did not wear the Citori out just shooting 30,000 rounds at blackbirds, I shot a few more than that, but it was mostly a quantity of heavy loads(when I was younger and more kill oriented I shot 1 3/8s oz minimum at anything I was hunting except blackbirds which wasn't hunting, just shooting).

However, I know several other people who have had the same problem and have read on the net of others. The average hunter does not shoot one enough for the problem to occur. Whether is is universal to the later ones, I can't say. A good friend has a Citori that was made in the 60s or very early 70s, that has shot thousands of extremely heavy loads(many of them 3 inch Fed #4 buck at geese when he wasn't using his O/U 10, charge weighed over 2 ounces and had the recoil to match)and it is still quite tight. Go figure.

I sure miss not having any rice fields around, blackbird shooting is superior practice and loads of fun as well. At ranges around a 100 yards, you have to hold over as well as a long ways in front of the bird.

I don't get to use my shotguns nearly enough, too bad the deer on my ranch don't fly....

Gato: Off the subject, but I used to be afflicted by the "more shot is better" syndrome, too. I moved up from 1 1/8 loads in a 12 to 1 1/4 HV's for doves, blaming the scattering of tail feathers in the air on "not enough shot". Then I began to notice that my father-in-law sitting right beside me, shooting a 20 gauge with 7/8 oz of 8's, would explode those same doves in a shower of breast feathers and they would fall to earth dead as a rock. Seems to have something to do with where the gun is pointed when it goes off.

Now I shoot practically nothing but a 28 gauge at doves and am thinking of finding a nice 5/8 oz load to save on shot. Sure, every once in a while a dove might slip "through" a pattern, but the real problem is the ones that just go "around" it.

By the way, I've done a little 100 yard shotgunning myself, and it's true that you need even more holdover than with a .22 pistol.

Anyhow, the 101 was a fine shotgun; too bad it went away.

Stonecreek:

No doubt that for birds in the shot charges effective range, or any range, for that matter, that putting the shot column on the bird is the number one priority, but given that, and assuming you have an effective, well balanced load the more shot, the more range, and the more kills.

I've always been pretty good with a shotgun, but many years ago when I was standing near an acquaintance in a dove field and he killed 2 doves in a row, stone dead, at over 100 yards, I knew he knew something about shotgun shells that I didn't. Asked him what he was shooting and he said, with that possum eating simmons grin, "Oh, just some old reloads." And that was the start of my shotgun reloading career. He was shooting 1 1/2 ounces of copper plated 6s with buffer. It is a wonderful long range dove load.

Like you, nowadays I am not quite as blood thirsty as I was, and often hunt(shhh, don't tell) with some of the cheapest promo loads available if I haven't had time to reload. I just restrict my ranges. Have hunted doves many times with 28 or .410s but with the minimal limits up here, meaning in the US as opposed to farther South, prefer a 12 so I can have enough for dinner, if they are few and far between. This area of Texas is not blessed with much dove attracting agriculture and a extremely dumb season time frame.

"The cheapest promo loads available" -- Yeah, I know, $29.80 at Walmart; I've got a garage full of them -- they're just too damn cheap to pass up. Not having a one-piece wad column, they don't give the performance of something like a Double A (or a good reload with a similar wad), but they do go "bang" (most of the time). Where I hunt doves, it's either feast or famine, meaning that on a good day you can get your limit and still waste plenty of shots; or the shooting is so sparse that you ain't gonna get a decent mess of birds anyway. So I shoot some of those promos when I'm not really serious, and also when I get out the old 12 o/u for "old times sake" (and when I take a 12 to the field for doves, it means I'm not really serious.

I've got a 101 STR lightweight that I bought new in 1984. It's been shot quite a bit over the years and it's still tight. I wouldn't give this gun up for anything. It points like a dream and I've killed about any type of upland game you can name with this gun.

Migra

Had a win. 101 in 20ga. Shot about 2000 shells at skeet. The sear wear make the gun unsafe to shoot. To light a trigger pull. Traded it for a Citori, much better shotgun.