Somewhat related to my other post re: Savage / Fox B models...

Any pointers for inspecting old doubles? I know the little trick about where the action lever lies when the action is closed, but how about some other secrets to identify a gun that's been abused / cobbled, or is just plain worn out?

Thanks,
Todd

Your eyes will go a long ways toward determining the condition. Is the metal really beat up, are there any noticeable gaps in the metal to metal fitting? Do the screw heads look like someone attacked then with a tire iron? Look carefully at the barrels to be sure they aren't bent or dented.

Obviously check the bores, heavy pitting is highly negative, any is undesirable but can be acceptable if the price reflects it. Damascus barrels are best left to those who understand them. Check the choke constrictions to see if the match what is on the barrels, if they are marked, of if they are what you want.

With permission, take the fore end off and gently shake it and see how much movement you get. Some is be expected, the less the better, but if it feels like a piece of chain, then go on to the next one.

Look at the locking lug and see if it has been peened with a hammer to tighten it up. Very common on old doubles. Doesn't necessarily mean it is shot, but is isn't a positive feature, for sure.

Look for cracks around the grip area, or where the tang fits. Any cracks are a major negative to value. Does the metal to wood fit seem decent, original wood? Original buttplate? Again, cracks don't mean the gun is not usable, but the price should reflect the problems.

Shortened or altered stocks lower value. It depends but a replaced stock is usually a negative as well. On older guns, and particularly 16 gauges, be sure the chambers are 2 3/4 inches. Or you have a real shell supply problem.

Ejectors or extractors, single or double trigger....any gun is what it is, some can be fixed or improved, but you need to buy it based on its present condition and market values. Don't get in a hurry unless you come upon a real bargain, there is always another gun.

I'm sure I'm leaving out some check points, but that will get you started. Hope it helps, good shooting.

hello, Gatogordo,
You seem to be someone who could supply me with good info.

I recently bought a 10 ga sxs hammer, I love it, I think the sxs, especially hammer, is absolutely the most beautiful type gun, been hooked for 30 years. I had checked out by a gunsmith, but there is a VERY slight movement of barrel when locked up. I have shot at least a 100 rounds through, do not care about accuracy, it ain't a part of my shooting, definitely not Damascus. I was curious if a safety issue, I think the gunsmith is good, but I like to get many opinions before I make up MY mind. I also don't care about about value, it gonna be with me till I die (or it kills me

Been critisized alot for my load I been using, which is 150-160 gr of ffg for a 1 oz roundball-other issues around these forums if you seen, please ignore. Hodgdon has a load data of 140 ffg for 2 oz shot, I ain't just throwing powder haphazardly into the brass cartridges I purchased with the arm.

Any insight/info/ideas would be appreciated. The thing sure seems to be fine, but always good for more people's opinions.
Thanks
rob the guy who sure loves having a 10, and I really be serious about one of those 4 bores! wow

I am not sure about the load you are using. I've loaded hundreds of thousands of shotgun rounds but they have all been shot. Plus I don't normally use blackpowder. Without researching it a bit I would be hesitant to comment, but based solely on the info that you have supplied, it sounds OK to me. Particularly if you are doing cowboy action, or just fooling around, I would err on the side of caution. What velocity are you getting with the roundballs? There is no benefit to loading something hotter in a shotgun than is necessary, it will just wear it out faster and the downrange gains are minimal due to the shape of shot, or RBs, for that matter.

The amount of play (movement) you have sounds normal to me, but it is hard to say without feeling it. Almost any double that has been used a bit will have some movement just due to wearing in of the mating metal surfaces. If the gunsmith said it was OK, it probably is. BTW, what make is your shotgun?

Todd

Ditto Gatogordos first post. I have paid for some old dogs in the past. Get some snap caps and check the ejectors are working correctly i.e. throwing the shell an equal distance. If one is weaker than the other this could spell problems in the future.

Check the tang for hairline cracks very carefully.

Check the srew heads on the locks. If they are burred than it could mean a less-than-acomplished smith has been messing about inside. Basic stuff.

Good luck

With a doublegun, no amount of play is acceptable, none. If there's movement, continued use will acclerate wear, taking tbe gun further off face. Removing the forend, grabbing the barrels and really shaking it should reveal how worn the gun is (don't be gentle here). Rejointing a double runs about $300, if done by a real smith. Finding cartidges for 2.50-inch chambered guns also is no problem. They can be ordered through some four dealers in the States and there's planty of reloading data for short cases. And remember that re-timing ejectors is often very expensive and best left to a handful of smiths. Old double are a lot of fun but there's a learning curve that can be very expensive. Go over to Gunshop.com and Shootingsportsman.com for a primer on old guns. Btw, I shoot a lovely 1880 W.C. Scott (nitro-Damascus) hammergun and a youthful (1937) W.J. Jeffery. With the right loads, both will outlive me.

Thanks for the input guys. I've decided to purchase a Baker Batavia Leader. It's in good shape, with some brown patina on the bluing, & honest wear on the checkering. I don't have it in my sweaty hands just yet, but the action is said to be nice & tight (not stiff), and the lever lies where it should. Choked full & IC.
I can't wait to hunt with this gun -- the old Rem 870 works well on pheasants, but there is just something about holding a double, especially a SXS...

I remember reading a short blurb about Baker & his guns in a current gun rag, at the bookstore -- I haven't been able to find it again. Anyone who knows what article I'm talking about, can you point me toward the right magazine?

Thanks,
Todd

I'll second JoeZ's post. Shooting a double that is off face is a recipe for disaster. Any movement, IMO, equals a double off face.

I would also add that while a 2-3/4" chamber is desirable, short shells are easy to obtain, and a gun that has had its chambers lengthened can be a problem if the lengthening created barrel walls that are too thin.

Joe, sounds like a beautiful gun you've got!

[ 08-06-2002, 00:06: Message edited by: Red Green ]