Anybody familiar with Aya #4 boxlock, sxs shotguns? They look and feel nice, but will they "last a lifetime" etc.?

I'm thinking of getting one in 20/76 for hunting ptarmigan up in the mountains here in Norway. Any advice would be appreciated!



Erik D.



PS.



Forgot to ask: How would the Aya compair to say a Beretta 471 Silver Hawk? Or a Chapuis boxlock?

It's a very good boxlock sold at an attractive price. AyA in the U.S. sells a 4/53 model, which is the same gun but with better wood. I've owned several AyAs and now shoot a Grulla. All very good shotguns. Tell us more about your ptarmigan hunting, please.

Our Ptarmigan hunting starts sept 10th and lasts until the end of febuary. In practice though, the majority of hunters only hunt ptarmigan until around november because of the snow that usually starts getting a bit deep in the mountains. Some hunters continue in the winter on skis. A bit of snow around october isn't a bad thing though, because by that time the birds will have aquired more and more white feathers (they will have turned totally white by winter time). If the area is "spotted" with snow with bare ground inbetween, the birds always are to be found near the snow, trying to use their camoflage.

When it comes to the practicalities of our ptarmigan hunting; some people (most as far as I know) use pointers. English Setters, English Pointers (like ours), German Shorthaired Pointers are the most common, and many also use Gordon or Irsh Setters. Then of course others, if they don't have dogs, will just walk and hope to flush the birds.

A day for us will typically start with us in mountains around 0700 AM and we will start walking with the dogs loose. Usually one or at the most two at a time if we have several with us. Hopefully the dog will soon stop and point, when we then go up to the dog and command him/her to flush the birds. The dog will then fetch the birds, unless you have just shot lots of holes in the air!

Of course if the dog is young and inexperianced this might not be the case, with he dog flushing the birds by himself and running after them for some kilometers while you stand there yelling and cursing his name... With young dogs we use a 15 meter red cloths line, which usually enables us to get ahold of them in time and restrain them while they are pointing so they don't flush before we say so. Eventually they get the idea... We often put a red or orange "coat" on the dog so it can be easier to see at distance. Sometimes its near impossible to spot them when they are pointing, so we try to visually follow them all the time.

Around 1100 AM the birds will be resting and thus will give off less smell for the dogs then when they are moving around. So this is when we take our break too. Depending on the weather and how far off we are in the terrain, we will either have some lunch and then lay down on the ground and try to sleep a bit, or return to our cabin for the break if possible. At 1400 PM, we will start walking again and continue till around 1700 PM.

As bird density varies a lot from area to area, we have in some places been happy to shoot a couple of birds a day, and in others we have shot 20 a day. Some areas are government owned, and you can buy a licence for x amount of days and others are private where you will rent the area for yourself that season. Which can of course be quite expensive since you will have it for yourself. These pictures are from an area my wifes grandfather rents, and we shot a little over 20 birds during the weekend. We also shot about twice as many holes in the air... I was unfortuantly very out of practice as we had been driving around in Africa for a year and I hadn't had a chance to shoot a shotgun for a long time.

This season will be differant with my soon to be aquired Aya, Beretta or whatever, and the possibility to practice! Since you usually walk quite far, a light 20/76 is pretty popular for this hunting since it's lighter to carry all day.

All in all, ptarmigan hunting here is a lot of walking and not so much shooting. But it's nice to be in the mountains and work with the dog even if we don't shoot a great deal.
On the other hand, Ptarmigan are real yummy if prepaired correctly so it's nice to come home with a few, and it's a traditional meal for quite a lot of families on X-mas Eve here in Norway.

Erik D.

www.dunia.no

...fwiw, do not have experience with the aya, but purchased a 470 silverhawk a few years ago...thought that it was a good deal at usd3,750 (tho paid slightly less)...think the 471 at usd2,750 retail is an better deal...sturdy, reliable, reasonably well fitting, shoots well, etc...

i have had one since 1977. it is a twenty eight gauge. have used it for grouse here in pa. also very good on early season pheasants with the puppies working. the only thing i ever did besides clean it, i opened the right barrel choke a bit and added a thin red rubber pad to keep it on my shoulder. the checkered butt looked real nice but it gets dinged up and it lets the gun slip.
thanks

ErikD

How old is the shotgun? I had a 16 gauge Aya when I was a teenager (and that was nearly 60 years ago when I first began shooting it) I was advised not to use "high base" loads (3 and 3/4 dr.loads)and used it as a grouse gun with only upland loads. Had no problems and BTW, the shotgun held together and never was loose. In one of my usual moments of insanity in my youth I traded it away because I wanted something that was "modern". ( An Ithaca "Featherlight" with which I missed grouse better than I had been missing before! Any of you older guys like me remember how when you stuck your left leg out (if you're right handed) when a bird went up and the bottom ejection of the Ithaca threw the empty out on your thigh hard enough to feel it and could throw you off?

Gerald,

I was thinking of a new one.

Erik D.

Erik D

Unless Aya shotguns really have gone down hill, I see no reason why you shouldn't get an Aya. Let me repeat. I shot an awful lot of rounds out of that old Aya double. It never shot loose - and that's the real reason why you should look at an Aya double.( I confess that I love doubles because of their ease of carrying in the field - and because my father said that if I couldn't kill a bird with two shots that the bird deserved to get away from such a lousy shot!) I'll bet the new models are even better. (maybe better (wider?) fore end and better tang safties?, the kind that move very smoothly)

Erik D

I just realized that you mentioned "ptarmigan". To be truthful, I just don't know how big a ptarmigan is - or whether he "takes shot" as we say about shooting game birds. I have a deep trust in what Norwegians tell me about hunting - because I know from reading history that the Norwegians are a race of hunters and fishermen. ( I am old enough to remember when the Third Reich threw down the gauntlet to Norway - and found out that it had kicked over a hornets nest. Please don't think that we Americans have forgotten history and don't remember what Europeans contributed to the defeat of the Third Reich. We really don't mean to look as if we think we are masters of the world. We do admire Norwegians.You fought an enemy when you didn't have much hope of winning.I have no idea how old you are but if you are young, you should admire your forebears. Yes,I know we elders are difficult many times ( just like we think you are difficult)but always remember that the old man you love faced an enemy of unrelenting savagery - and beat him.

Gerald,



On behafe of the Norwegian people; thank you for your kind words! Hunting here is a realativly common activity, and about 1/5 of the grownup population hunts. Unfortunatly, "urbanization" is taking its toll, and we now see more and more of an anti hunting mentality amongst city youth... Popular urban politics have as such things often do, twisted reality and we will from next hunting season not be allowed to use lead shot for all shotgun hunting and sportshooting...



Besides the longterm negative affect of using steel shot on older shotguns, this is a problem for those who who hunt in the mountains where the terrain is very rocky. Riccochets are a real danger in our hunting terrain and dogs /people will very likely be loosing eyes soon if they aren't careful... The other option, Bismuth is very expensive (about US$ 3 per shot) as is "Hevi-shot"(which is also a riccochet danger), which is actually harder than steel, and thus not good for older barrels either... The reasoning behind this political decision is that lead is poisonous. Period. They conveniently forgot to take into consideration that it is a natural substance to be found in the ground from before... Tests here in Oslo on our shooting range have shown that decades of shooting has had no real negative affect to the ground water and soil in the area. Where tons of lead have been deposited. For waterfowl that can ingest lead with consequent fatal results, other options are understandable, but not for our "regular" hunting. It has been proved (later on, after the "experts" decided on our hunting future), that almost all lead introduction that can be veiwed as harmfull to our nature is "long distance deposited". Many unknowing people then thought that meant: "the distance between the shotgun, and where the shot lands"! When in reality it is airborne polution from Europe that is the source, and was meant! This is just one example of how our "leader" have lost contact with reality when it comes to hunting and nature conservation(amongst other things).



Things are unfortunatly not as bright as they might seem abroad, where many think Norway is as it used to be in the "good old days"!!!



This is not totally new though. You mentioned our resitance to the nazi occupation. My family was involved in the resitance in several ways, and infact my grandparents and their family (my mother included) was kicked out of their house/farm as the Gestapo wanted to use it as a headquarters. They then had to go off to live in a cabin far up in the woods with a few cows and other animals. Since my family has (and is!) fiercly patriotic, this didn't exactly put the nazis in a better light!



What must be understood though with Norwegian history is that our Labour party, which was ruling at the time, refused to see what was coming. All through the 30s, they had a policy which we called "the broken rifles" policy. Downsizing the military to a degree that they were as good as useless and without equipment when faciing the enemy. They fought hard, but it could only last so long... Fortunatly, the general mentality amongst regular people enabled the restistance to grow, which in several ways helped win the war. For example the sabatage regarding the nazis "Heavy Water project" at Rjukan, which hindered the nazis from making an atom bomb in time as they had planned.



I myself (you asked my age and I'm 34, so a bit younger than you) did more than my fair share serving my country, and must admit I get a bit depressed when I see that todays politicians have been returning to the 30s metality... A Swedish Prime minister some years ago said Norway is the last Sovjet state, and in many ways he was right.



Well, enough about our problems! Best to just continue hunting and shooting as long as we are allowed... Perhaps one day there will be a new "resistance" if the urbanites try to cut down our hunting rights too far.



Ptarmigan by the way are not very shot resistant, and weigh about 500 gram each.



Take care,



Erik D.



www.dunia.no

Erik:

Thank you for one of the most informative and interesting posts I have read in any forum in a long time!

It was fascinating to read about the richochet effects of steel shot and even of "Hevi-Shot". The same arguments were given to us over here by so called "environmentalists" about the bad effects of lead. This was supposedly because water fowl ingested spent shot that they found on the bottom of the particular water area. (No one explained why, if that was true, that we had numerous species of waterfowl that had been depleted by market hunting at the turn of the 20th Century - and had bounced back after sane hunting laws were imposed) I gather you can't use lead shot on upland birds either? (by our definition, any bird not a goose or duck) Your ptarmigan sounds like our ruffed grouse in not taking shot. With grouse, however, the trick is to lay any shot on him at all! In my time I baptized many a tree trunk with No.7 1/2s -right after the grouse flew behind it!

Norway wasn't alone in failing to guard against the growing menace of the Third Reich. No one in Europe did. No one in the USA did. (We had people over here who didn't even recognize the menace even after WW2 began)

Urbanization is catching up very rapidly with us over here too. I sometimes think that mine was the last generation who could walk out of the house in the morning and be hunting within 5 minutes thereafter - and I lived within 60 miles of what was then the largest city in America. Today we have any number of "hunting preserves". There is one within 20 miles of me today. About 5 years ago I was persuaded to join several other men in a half day pheasant hunt. (Chinese ring tail) I hunted pheasants as a boy in cornfields where the stalks were still standing {we didn't have combines then which now clear the ground entirely) A pheasant hates to fly and will run if he can. Often I ran after a bird I couldn't see but heard running for the stone wall. The trick was to catch up with him quickly enough that the bird knew he had no time to scuttle over the wall - and had to fly. Many's the time I skidded to a stop as the cock went up, panting like crazy and getting the shotgun up. Another way of hunting them was to go after "brush pheasants") by walking in a brushy ravine and hear the bird take off from the hillside - and cross as he now is doing 45 mph with a full head of steam when I can see him - and have about 4 seconds to get the gun up and to shoot. That was not the hunting I saw that day at that preserve - and it was supposed to be very good of its kind. ($500 for a half day) I never went back. Why settle for such when I could have my memories of what real bird hunting was?

Regards Gerry

Gerald,

Have sent you a PM.

Erik D.