Friends-

I'm thinking about trying to find some 2 1/2 inch 12 Guage Shells for a Vintage Ithaca Flues Shotgun this fall.

Midway doesn't seem to carry them. Anybody know where I can find some?

Thanks in advance.

Have you thought about lengthening the chamber for 2 3/4?

This company seems to have them at a reasonable price2 1/2" shells but I haven't done any business with them. There is another company that carries English (Eley) 2 1/2 inchers but they are over $20 a box which seems a bit high to me. I'd reload them, which is really easy, before I'd pay that.

Here's another one.....Kent/Gamebore

Try RST ans PolyWad...That's where I buy mine!

JW

Of course, I am showing my ignorance -but I just simply never knew that a 2 1/2" chambering was ever available for any American 12 ga. shotgun -even a "vintage" Ithaca - and I shot a few "vintage" Ithacas in my time. (I always assumed that only British 12s had such chambering) One reason I love following AR is to learn something I diddn't know when I got up this morning!

Gerry-

The Ithaca is chambered for 2 3/4's inch shells. My understanding is that most of the 2 1/2 inch shells are lower pressure, hence, a little easier on the older firearms. Perhaps, a little easier on the shooters, as well.

Based on some of the velocities that I have seen on some of the 2 1/2 inch rounds makes me wonder if the pressures are all that different?

quote:

Originally posted by 30 Caliber Mag Fan:
Gerry-

The Ithaca is chambered for 2 3/4's inch shells. My understanding is that most of the 2 1/2 inch shells are lower pressure, hence, a little easier on the older firearms. Perhaps, a little easier on the shooters, as well.

Based on some of the velocities that I have seen on some of the 2 1/2 inch rounds makes me wonder if the pressures are all that different?

Besides the above listed 21/2" shells,
try the Winchester reduced loads;

Winchester AA Low Recoil AA12FL8, 12 Gauge, 2 3/4", 26 grams, 980 fps, #8 Lead Shot

and other Win "Lite" loads

quote:

The Ithaca is chambered for 2 3/4's inch shells

If this is a Flues or Model66 shotgun from the 30's it is 2 1/2 inch ( or should be). Just because a 2 3/4 shell fits in the chamber doesn't mean it belongs in there. Try to fit that same shell in the chamber when it is opened up. That is where the problem lies. If there isn't room for the shell to open the pressure will spike and bad things happen. Some people get lucky and get away with it, some don't.

The low recoil loads recommended above are good choices but it is easy to reload really low pressure loads if that is what you want. Basically you use the slowest burning rate powders, follow load directions and it will give you very low pressures. However, those same loads MAY not perform well in really cold conditions. If you keep the pressures around 8 to 9000 with lighter shot charges, you should have a good load that will not punish the gun or your shoulder.

P.Mark Stark:

Thanks for your comments. I do think that when I hear "2 1/2 inch" that it means a shell fitting a 2 1/2 inch shotgun chambering perfectly. (I would think that firing a 2 1/2 inch shell in a 2 3/4 chamber would interfere with the shot cone. An absolute "no-no" of my youth was that one was very careful about shotgun shell lengths. Just my thoughts.

Try these guys:

http://www.rstshells.com/index.htm

I've used their 2-7/8 inch shells in two pre-1900 10 gauge guns and am very satisfied.

I buy 2-1/2 inch ammo from B&P and RST for my older guns. As a dealer, I can buy four flats from RST and get free shipping. I usually wait until B&P has a free shipping special to buy theirs. I"m very fond of B&P No 7s for pheasant. They're even marked "High Pheasant".

Incidentally, RST will allow you to mix shot sizes in a flat. That's a big plus if you want to try various shot sizes. Their shipping for a single flat of shells is only about $14, so it's worth it to try a flat with various shot sizes. RST uses Cheddite cases and they are quite reloadable.

I'd recommend you check independently but the MD of Eleys once told me you could use 2 3/4 ROLLED cartridges in 2 1/2 chambered shotgun.

Frankly, I didn't know who the hell he was and pretty much told him so.

With no further ado, he called the Eley tech dept who sent me paperwork confirming it.

FWIW, I shot 2 3/4 rolled through my 2 1/2 chambered Hellis for years without any problems. I've just sold the Hellis and bought a Dickson also with 2 1/2 chambers and will do the same thing with that.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I'd recommend you check independently but the MD of Eleys once told me you could use 2 3/4 ROLLED cartridges in 2 1/2 chambered shotgun.

Frankly, I didn't know who the hell he was and pretty much told him so.

With no further ado, he called the Eley tech dept who sent me paperwork confirming it.

FWIW, I shot 2 3/4 rolled through my 2 1/2 chambered Hellis for years without any problems. I've just sold the Hellis and bought a Dickson also with 2 1/2 chambers and will do the same thing with that.

AFA I know there are no commonly available ROLL crimp 2 3/4 inch 12 ga rounds in the US.

Here you go buddy:

http://findarticles.com/p/arti...is_3_47/ai_70650317/

http://www.polywad.com/vintager.html

http://www.polywad.com/polymag.html

If you reload, this http://www.usfreeads.com/301229-cls.html might be a possibility.

Sadly, it's a lot harder to get them here in Africa.

FWIW,

I emailed Eley over the weekend and just had their reply which is copied below:

Dear sir

Thank you for your enquiry.

We manufacture cartridges to CIP standards and this allows for the use of 67.5mm cases in 65mm chambered guns.

The issue with guns made pre 1940 is in regards to the length of the forcing cones, the part of the barrel between the chamber and the barrels bore.

In these ‘older’ guns the forcing cones tend to be very short in length and quite steeply angled and this can result in 67.5mm cases being nipped in the forcing cone as the wad exits the cartridge.

The main result of this is that the mouth of the fired case can appear ragged or perhaps torn – especially when a fibre wad is used due to the higher degree of friction.

This has no effect on the safety or performance of the cartridge but doesn’t look good cosmetically.

If you want to avoid any damage to the mouth of the case, you will have to use a 65mm case to avoid this I’m afraid.

I hope this answers your question.

If we can be of any further help, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

Yours faithfully

David Scott

UK Commercial Manager

Eley Hawk Limited

Selco Way First Avenue

Minworth Industrial Estate

Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands

B76 1BA

If you'll note, I posted a link to polywad in my first post in this thread. The key word was "commonly". If you're going to have to order them, you might as well order what the gun was chambered for.

Sorry buddy, I missed your link.

At least you guys can order what you want..... seems that here, we have to take what we can get.

I'm down to about my last 75 - 2 1/2 inchers and have been saving them for the (1926 SLE) Dickson I've just bought. I'm nearly done refinishing the woodwork and am itching to get out to give it a try. Once I've used the cartridges I have, I guess I'll have to go to the longer ones and follow Eley's advice.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Sorry buddy, I missed your link.

At least you guys can order what you want..... seems that here, we have to take what we can get.

I'm down to about my last 75 - 2 1/2 inchers and have been saving them for the (1926 SLE) Dickson I've just bought. I'm nearly done refinishing the woodwork and am itching to get out to give it a try. Once I've used the cartridges I have, I guess I'll have to go to the longer ones and follow Eley's advice.

Shakari:

I dunno what shotgun reloading capabilities you have over there, but, to repeat myself, reloading 2 1/2 inch 12s is quite easy here using regular 8 pt crimps. But, I am sure Eley is right, because the only issue in 2 1/2 vs 2 3/4 is the crimp getting into the forcing cone and raising pressure, roll crimp=shorter case length, no forcing cone issue.

I've only ever reloaded rifle ammo but am sure I could get the necessary kit and do as you suggest...... I'd just never thought of bothering with it until now.

Sorry, I did not have time to read all of the above posts, but please take my advise...Simply call Polywad right here in GA, and don't lengthen the chambers. I shoot 2.5" Polywads in a 20 ga. Flues for snipe, and they are so deadly I can't believe it, and low enough pressure for the Flues. They have an adequate web site, but let me know if you have any trouble. And the price is not bad at all.

Steve

I ordered 10 boxes for my vintage FN A5(DOM 1925) 16 ga. with a 2 9/16 chamber from these guys yesterday. Good prices. http://www.firearmservice.com/...ore/html/page19.html

I would see if I could get pressure info on any 2-1/2" shells you can find. I would be surprised if the pressure for a given shot charge is any lower than equiv. 2-3/4 shell. I believe there are some low pressure/low recoil 7/8 to 1oz loads for the 12.
C.G.B.

I like B and P short shells very much but they are not low pressure shells. The pressure velocities are in the "high brass" range. For lower pressure 2 1/2'ers, I'd look to RST.