Well, my wife has become addicted to sporting clays......to the tune of a new Beretta 686 silver pigeon....and new progressive loader and all the other necessaries.......I'm not complaining.....I'm REALLY glad she likes to shoot/hunt. I enjoy shooting clays too, not to the extent that she does, but It has come to the point that I "need" to upgrade shotguns.

I have had a Ruger Red Label 12 gauge for about 10 years......haven't shot it much 'cause it never quite fit me correctly and, after about one box of shells, it gives me a raging headache. I took it to a gun fitter/shooting coach and he suggested a change in pitch, a new pad and lengthening the forcing cones....... about $160 for the works......but.....he also told me that I probably wouldn't be satisfied with the gun for very long.......he has worked on quite a few Red Labels, and, while they are very good field guns, he has not been able to lower the recoil to a level that is comfortable for long shooting sessions (even with porting).

So, I have to decide where to go next......he prefers Browning O/Us.....I have shot a few older Brownings but none of the newer stuff.......(a buddy has a 325 that I dearly love!). Of course, he likes the 30" barrels, but I hate long barrels on shotguns......I had my old 870 cut to 20" and fitted with screw in chokes years ago.....and I want a gun that I will enjoy hunting with too.......that means a barrel length of 26" or so.

Any suggestions/advice? Any other makers I should look at? Any to stay away from? Anybody know where I can get a Browning 325 at a reasonable price? How about a semi auto? Anybody in the market for a nice Red Label?

Thanks, Mark

When I went the same route , since I have a problem of fitting any factory stock, I looked for a custom stock. I went to Orvis , got a Beretta with fine stock fit to me . With 28" barrels it weighs 7 1/4 lbs. Fine for clays or hunting. Many of the sporting clay guns have gadgets that are not necessary, 32" barrels etc and they make poor hunting guns. In an auto remember that a 24" auto is the same overall as a 28" o/u.

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Most sporting clays guys are leaning towards longer barrels, about 30 inches, (weight forward keeps barrels swings, makes pointing a bit more accurate, and, of course, the additional weight reduces recoil a fraction) but if you are going to hunt with it, 27 or 28 inch barrels are a good choice.

If you are going to seriously shoot sporting clays, you will likely not be satisfied with shorter barrels for long. With no disrespect meant, your penchant for shorter barrels indicates that you are likely not handling the shotgun correctly. Shorter barrels are faster but much more likely to be overhandled or mispointed.

Some of the best sporting clays shots in the world are now using semi-autos, so you could consider them. I prefer O/Us but that is likely partly habit and the fact that I really think having 2 chokes available in the field is a big advantage.

Gonhunting, I was just nodding along with you there. There is a big difference in snap shooting grouse in a thick aspen grove, and pulling ahead on a 40 yard crosser.

I'm starting to think the answer is two guns for two different purposes. JMO, Dutch.

By all means, shoot what you think is best, get a short barreled gun for sporting clays and see how you shoot it. Score sheets tend to support or disprove personal theories relatively rapidly. Of course, that has already been done, but some people don't learn from history.....

BTW, the closest shot I recall was a flushing woodcock in the scrub brush along the Platte River in Nebraska, about 3 feet. Somehow, in spite of being incredibly handicapped by 27 inch barrels on my over and under, I managed to hit him and a few more, plus some pheasants that we were actually in pursuit of. Hunt woodcocks for a while, and then you can tell me about close cover.

[ 05-19-2003, 18:36: Message edited by: Gatogordo ]

Well, if you have 27" barrels on your over and under then "your penchant for shorter barrels indicates that you are likely not handling the shotgun correctly. Shorter barrels are faster but much more likely to be overhandled or mispointed."


I really (seriously) do appreciate the advice you are giving. I'm certain you are correct in that longer barrels help with a smoother swing and higher score for someone who is "serious" about sporting clays. I'm just not that serious about it! I believe I stated in my first post that this will be a dual purpose shotgun, that I hate long barrel shotguns and that I want a gun that I will enjoy hunting with, too......In an ideal world, I'd buy matching shotguns, one with a long barrel for sporting clays and another with a short barrel for hunting......but that's not likely to happen.......

Cold bore:

On the blackbirds that was AFTER I had taken the edge off of my blood lust and I was restricting myself to 500 in the morning and 500 in the afternoon. Shoot 500, always have a few hundred extra just in case , go home and load 500, get up, be at field at dawn (about 45 minute drive) shoot 500, go home load 500, take a nap, take care of business and go back to the fields, come home load 500, etc. It was brutal, but someone had to help that poor rice farmer out. Thank goodness for Ponsness Warrens.

On the Argentine dove hunt, we were the first Americans (just a buddy and I, we had been goose hunting so we went to the dove fields a couple of days ahead of the following group) that had ever hunted that area. I had been trap shooting competitively for quite a while, so recoil was not a big problem with some good homemade (thank you for polysorbothane)recoil pads. You shoot a good bit faster than once every 10 seconds, that is for the slow periods in the middle of the day (after the wine and steaks for lunch, when most of us old hands are now taking a nap ) the barrels get so hot they will probably boil water although I never tested that theory. BTW, I slowed down after the first day, I think we hunted for 5 or 5 1/2 days, and I only shot about 13,000 shells total.

After going there for a while, we would play games like "how many seconds to kill a Texas limit, 15 birds" start timing at sound of first shot, record was less than 30 seconds as I recall.
Also, how many birds for a box, maximum time of one minute. 23 was the best, I think, been a while.

BTW, I've mentioned this before, but before some semi-bunny hugger gets their panties in a wad, the earred dove is a declared agricultural pest in Argentina with NO SEASON and NO LIMIT. Farmers love hunters and the estimate is that as much as 50% of the grain yield goes to the birds. With the continued plowing up of the Pampas (most productive native grassland in the world) which is a shame, the dove population continues to increase in spite of the fact that there are many multiples more hunters shooting them than back in the 80s when I started.

Great people, great country, lousy politics which leads to lousy economics, so what else is new?

[ 05-21-2003, 07:11: Message edited by: Gatogordo ]