For the past 20 years I have wanted to upgrade to a Beretta Over and Under. A Few weeks ago I went into a sporting goods store with my wife and there was a Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon behind the counter. I asked to hold it and it felt really good. I gave it back to the man and started to leave with my wife and she stopped me and said " I am not leaving this store until you buy that gun". Apperently she was tired of me talking about it for years.

So I pulled the trigger so to speak. I waited my 10 days and picked it up. The issues is that the first time I shot it. the gun beat the crap out of my cheek bone and middle finger on my right (trigger hand) hand. I have shot a Rem 870 Express for years without any issues. Never experienced any issues like this even when shooting 3" mags at Ducks.

Is this an issue with gun fit or gun mount? I have not shot a shotgun much in the last few years so I may be rusty but it does not feel weird when I mount it. Any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Sounds like the gun is cast (as a O/U should be) and therefore the comb is hitting your face and the back of the trigger guard is hitting your middle finger.

Your 870 has a straight stock. Like an Army rifle so the slap in the face effect is mitigated against by its having no cast.

Now if the length of pull is correct for you on the Beretta the gun shouldn't have any "free" recoil as such that it comes back to hit your face.

So I'd guess that the stock is not the correct length for you. Try it with a slip on recoil "boot" type recoil and see if that helps.

But if cast and length is OK look back in time to the masters of gunmaking from the Victorian era in England.

The British gun maker W. W. Greener said you should work on the rule of ninety-six. That is a gun should ideally weigh as a minimum ninety-six times the weight of the shot charge in a standard velocity cartridge that you are going to put through it.

So a gun weighing six pounds should fire no more than one ounce of lead and for a shot load of one and a half ounces the gun should weigh fully nine pounds.

These Beretta 686 weight what? Seven pounds thirteen ounces. Thats one hundred and twenty five ounces. Divide by ninety six and you get just a tad over an ounce and a quarter in a standard velocity cartridge.

So these Beretta guns are really made for use with regular velocity 2 3/4' shells and a maximum of one and an eight of an ounce or one and a quarter of an ounce.

That's the maximum comfortable weight of shot that the gun is built around. If you use anything more powerful you will get bitten back...

It is quite safe, of course, for whatever shell length and maximum load is stamped on he barrel. But slapped faces and bruised middle fingers are usually too much cast or too short a stock....or too great a weight of shot in the cartridge.

It could also be an issue of too much pitch.

I was shooting 1 oz shot, so I am well within the standards of the great Victorians.

I think that you may be on to something with the length of pull. I am 6'4" tall and weigh 195 lbs. So I have long arms and a fairly flat chest. So I would assume that a standard length of pull would be a little short for me.

I have a slip on recoil pad, I think that it adds about 1/2". I will give it a try and see if it changes anything.

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.

A person your size needs a LOP of at least 15 1/2". In my opinion anyways. A friend of mine a little larger than you shoots a 16 1/2" LOP.

The longer LOP should reduce felt recoil in the face as well as move your hand location further down the grip alleviating middle finger contact.

I would pattern the gun to figure out if your point of impact is the same as your point of aim. I'd almost assume you need more cast too if you are wider in the shoulders than a standard 5' 10" guy.

Too tall! I am 6' 4" too but a little over 220 lbs. I have never owned and O/U so cannot comment on what the correct LOP would be for you.

However on a single trigger S/B/S my LOP is 15 5/8' to centre. So yes the problem is that the stock is too short for you.

Cast should be fairy OK for you. At least the Beretta guns are easy to lengthen the stock.

Just screw off the plastic butt plate and add a lengthening piece or as some do put on a nice red Silvers type pad.

Any decent gunsmith should be able to fit such a pad or lengthening piece or be able to send the action and butt away to have this done.

I think that your slip on pad will show if that is the way to go. Some work best if you remove the plastic butt plate on the Beretta.

If you are lucky (it depends on the slip on pad) you can also put a piece of plywood cut to size under the pad to give some more length.

I just measured the gun and from the center of the trigger to the center of the pad it is 14 3/4" if I put my slip on pad on it is 15 5/16". My pad is a leather pad that should accept a few shims without any difficulty. So I will make a few shims to get me to at least 15 1/2" and shoot it and see how it feels at the different lengths.

I have fitted a few recoil pads and am comfortable doing that but from what I am reading I have a feeling I am going to need more length that I will get from adding a longer pad.

I will try to figure out the correct length first then I can try to figure out the right method to get there.

Thanks for the help guys, I will post my results as I gather them.

Midway (is it now Brownell's) do a long, long, long, red Silvers type recoil pad that has a rigid black spacer and then an inch of red pad.

They are solid and very good and come with plugs to blank off the screw holes when the thing is fitted.

I have two. They are very good and if fitted neatly look very elegant.

Nice gun like that, I'd recommend you take it somewhere and have it fitted to you. All the experimenting in the world can be short circuited by an experienced gun fitter.

With the help of my 10 year old son (throwing the clays) I did a little more experiment today.

I made some shims out of 1/8" hardboard and used my slip on pad to adjust the length of pull as I shot. Here is a picture of my setup.



I found that 15 3/8 felt good with minimal felt recoil on the cheek and no issues with the finger. I went up to 15 1/2 and had issues mounting the gun. It would catch on my clothing when coming up. This may be a gun mounting issue as I have been playing around with things but it did not feel comfortable to me.

I will try this a little more another day and start at the longer length of pull and work my way backward to see what feels best.

But for today it appears that 15 3/8 is close. If that is the case, the butstock without the Beretta pad sits at 14" so I am looking for a pad that is about 1 3/8 long.

I will spend a little time tonight looking to see what is out there.

I would like to get fit by a professional. But I cant find anyone in my area. There is an ex Purdey gunsmith in northern California that I may try if I cant get there myself.

CSMC offers a 1 1/2" red recoil pad, a silvers copy.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
CSMC offers a 1 1/2" red recoil pad, a silvers copy.

Yea, That looks perfect. They also sell leather for making leather covered pads. I have always wanted to do a leather covered pad.

Thanks for the lead!

That CSMS pad is the same as the one that I mentioned from Midway USA. It is good that it is available from other outlets.

Leather covered pads? Mounting issues?

Shellac Mr Hines! Shellac!

My old gun stocker, Brendan Kelly, who used to work for Webley & Scott as a stocker used to recommend shellac applied to any rubber pad to make it "slick".

I think....my pot of it is hidden away...that he mixed it 50/50 by volume with boiled linseed oil so that it went on easily.

The oil then evaporating from the rubber pad and the shellac drying without finger marks.

But that may have been for something else. Memory! Let's you down!

He said, and was right, that with that you didn't need leather covered pads and all of that.

He was right. Just re-new it now and again when needed.

Your shim pieces looks good. very good.

Another option for you would be to contact Cole Gunsmithing with shops in Maine and Florida. He is a factory authorized Beretta gunsmith and may be able to help you. I mailed one of my Beretta SP IIs to him for a new stock and forearm and he did an excellent job and quick too. He also sells some very nice upgraded wood stock sets for all Berettas.

http://www.colegun.com/

Thanks for the heads up about Cole they have some nice stocks. Once I get my dimensions figured out I may contact them for a wood upgrade. First I need to get the fit dialed in so I can shoot things.

I got the 1 1/2 inch red pad mounted today. I will give it a try next week and see how it works. Here is a pic of it mounted. Not the best looking thing but it is more secure that the leather slip on pad. I could take a little more off to get it to fit better. To be honest I was having a hard time with it because it was so big. It really wanted to bite into the sander. SO I am just going to use it as is for a little while.

You are obviously set on the Berreta O/U and hopefully you will get it to fit but don't compromise if it doesn't. Nothing worse than a poor fitting and usually poor pointing shotgun.

BTW I use a big old electric grindstone to do recoil pads, against the flat side of the slower turning stone. The pad does not grab anywhere near the same (if at all) as a sander and also you do not get the rubber and backing plate smearing like I have seen in some photos from posters in the midst of sanding down a pad.

Well, I ended up putting a shorter recoil pad on it because the red pad was a little long and was hanging up on my shirt when mounting.


I shoot the gun fairly well but it does not feel 100% right so I have decided to go get it fitted.

I have an appointment with Dale Tate this Sunday. Dale is a Purdey trained gun maker that offers gunfitting in California. So on Sunday I will take the 5 and a half hour drive and get it fitted.

I will let you guys know how it turns out.

Dale Tate Gunmaker

quote:

Dale Tate

Just went to his web site. He is only 30 min. from me. I will have to make an appointment with him to fit my gun.