Im looking for a bird gun (pheasants, quail, woodcock) that will get plenty of walking time. Im leaning towards these two gauges but havent decided on one yet. Im thinking either a rem 1100 or a O/U. What input can you give me on these options? Thanks.

Depends on how much you walk and how much you shoot and if you reload. 16 GA is ideal for for your purpose, but the shells are expensive and hard to find - unless you reload. Starting to see a few more 16 Ga guns now. Browning is making them in the Citori. Rem 870 Ithaca 37.

If I were looking at an autoloader it would be a Beretta 391 in 20 Ga. Light, fast, dependable, adjustable stock and 3" chambers.

But I'm like SXS and 870 Wingmasters.

Scott,
While I have nothing against the 16ga. I'd choose a 20, you can find 20ga. ammo anywhere.
Over/Unders are my favorites, 20,28,.410. Ruger Red Label is a lot of gun for the money.
Stepchild

For a shotgun that will see alot of walking, I am ver fond of the Franchi Veloce I just got. Only weighs 5.8lbs in 20 ga.!! Not a gun I would care to use for extended dove shoots, but for a grouse/pheasant gun I can't imagine anything easier to carry all day.

If these are wild pheasants over flushers, I'd lean towards the 16 ga -- the extra lead in the air is useful in that case.

That said, there is such a vast difference between woodcock hunting and pheasant hunting that a gun for both will necessarily be a compromise. Perhaps you would do best to buy the ideal gun for the type of hunting you do most, and then make do with it on the other occasions, until you can afford your second gun. JMO, Dutch.

Another Thought. With the O/U or SxS with scew in chokes you can use two different chokes and select the barrel with the appropriate choke for the shot(easier with a two trigger gun) - it will take some practice to get it down,

This could make a difference in pheasant. The wild running flush vs the flush under your feet.

Mod and IMP CYL for Pheasant
IMP MOD and Imp CYL another pheasant option
IMP CYC and Skeet for Quail
Skeet and bore for Woodcock

Whatever you pick be sure to get changeable chokes. You will need them for the variety of game you selected.

If you get the long pheasant shots and pick the 20 ga., think about the 3" mag - but it will kick.

All other things being equal AND the frame made to match the shell, I'd pick the 16. However, I'd pick a 20 over a 16 on a 12 ga. frame. Yes, I have a couple of 12s, a 16, a couple of 20s, a 28 and a couple of .410s.

16's are definitely fun, and nowadays sufficiently obscure that it's unlikely that other people in your hunting or shooting group will have a gun like yours. Those are plus values toward choosing a 16.

But ammunition for the 16 is hard to find, and there isn't as much variety available for it as for 12 and 20 gauges. So, as someone else said, unless you reload, I'd recommend the 20.

Well, i do have a 20ga loader sitting in my basement, but im not planning on loading just yet. I have looked around in the various catalogs i have and it doesnt seem that 16 shells are too hard to come by, but i will agree that the selection isnt too great. That being said i guess i could settle with a 20ga. Since im picking the smaller of the two, if i ever have the urge to waterfowl or pheasent ill have to pull one of my 12ga pumps out of storage. Now its just a matter of finding the shotgun. Semi or O/U? Ill just keep my eyes on the auctions. Thanks for all your input guys, Scott

There's no single "right" choice between an OU and an auto, so you'll just have to weigh your own preferences as to what is important to you.

I like an auto for quail because more than two shots are often offered on a covey rise and the magazine reserve can be useful. I hunt quail with a featherweight Franchi recoil operated auto 20 gauge that is lightening-quick and provides that critical 3rd (and 4th or 5th) shot when the "laggards" decide to get up after the main covey rise. On the other hand, if your quail are scarce or you just prefer to hunt the singles, then an OU is just fine and is of no disadvantage.

For doves, I much prefer an OU. Keeping up with your spent hulls is easier, and if a flight of doves offers you more than two shots at a time, well, so what, there will be some more along in a few minutes. Besides, the OU is just "classier" than the auto (many autos have gone paramilitary in recent years, and I find them rather tasteless in a game field).

As to pheasants and woodcock, I don't think there's a big disadvantage to either action type.

You'll have to be prepared to spend some bit more money for an OU of reasonable quality as compared to an auto, so if that factor enters into the equation, be so warned.

Whatever you pick, you'll enjoy it if you select a gun that appeals to you.

With all due respect to the previous poster, none of the three reasons given against auto loaders hold water.

First, Scott is not a reloader, so keeping track of the hulls is irrelevant.

Second, modern auto's, ones like the Beretta 391 or the Browning Gold, eat any kind of reasonable shell. I know, I've fed both. Even 7/8th's loads feed.

Third, I don't clean EITHER the 391 or the Gold more than every 500 rounds, anymore. For just about any hunter, that is much more than one season.

The biggest benefit of the auto is that you can buy a 6.5 lb 12 that shoots "adult" 12 ga. loads, but recoils and carries like a lightweight 20 ga double.

For a third of the price. Some even have cute gold bird inlays: my wife sure likes hers..... FWIW, Dutch.

Dutch, if you are satisfied with your autoloaders, then good for you.

I do know that, for every autoloader I see on the skeet range, I see at least ten O/Us.

I realize that the purpose for which a gun will primarily be used is important in choosing the gun, so if the person wants a gun only for hunting, and the person is recoil-sensitive, then an autoloader may be a good choice. I agree with you that an autoloader can be significantly lighter in weight than an O/U, and that an autoloader can be gotten for 1/3 or even less than the price of a good O/U.

But I also remember reading, somewhere on accuratereloading within the past half-year (sorry; I don't remember the thread or the reference, so I can't tell you where to find it), comments from a gun dealer or service technician about guns needing repair. The ones needing repair most often were autoloaders.

[ 09-03-2003, 04:01: Message edited by: LE270 ]

Sounds like im pretty much leaning towards a used 1100 20ga. Seems like theres plenty of 1100's and parts around that i shouldnt have any trouble servicing it. Plus if i get an older one thats well broken in im sure that it will handle lighter "cheap" promo loads for sport shooting clays and such, yet still provide enough power for heavy loads. I think that the price and history is really what turned my attention to this firearm versus others. Although i would love a more expensive firearm, im sure this will get the job done for small birds, rabbits, and maybe even squirrel. Thanks for all your input, and if you know where there might be a cheap used 1100 20ga with a VR and wood stock, please let me know.

Not to beat a dead issue. If you want cheap and dependable get used 870 Wingmaster. Then you don't have to worry about finding parts, they last a very long time. If you get the 1100 be sure to buy an set of O rings for it and take them with you.

I have a 20 ga Wingmaster, and a 12 ga wingmaster, and a 12 ga Browning pump. Im just looking for an exscuse to buy a new toy really.

le270, I'll agree with the benefit of a stackbarrel on the skeet field. There, however, the price of the gun becomes a much, much smaller part of the overall experience. Between travel, range fees and shells, the cost of the gun ends up being a very small part. Moreover, it's not terribly far between stations, so a heavier gun isn't too big of a burden.

Even so, if you look around the sporting clay's course, it seems that the single most common gun is a Beretta 391, in some configuration or another.

I'll also agree with the fact that most auto's need more maintenance, but that is not really relevant to a hunter. Not even for a hunter that shoots clays occasionally. Changing recoil springs at 5,000 rounds is after most of their lifetimes......!

I shoot a lightweight auto on all boot-leather species, such as sage, sharptail grouse, pheasant, huns, but especially chuckars. Most of these end up flushing wild at 30 plus yards late in the season, at least around here, and a scoop full of 5's really helps bring them down. Keeping the gun weight to 6.5 lbs helps me keep my arms from stretching beyond the current 38".

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with a nice double. I am having an Elsie in 20 ga refinished to properly take care of those species that don't need the punch. There is something about hunting ruffed over a pointing dog with a gun that shoots just a half thimble full of pellets. Even after reblue, re-color case harden, refinish the stock with a oil finish, plus the "leg-o-mutton" case, I'll have less into that gun that my Gold Fusion. FWIW, Dutch.

I would go with the 16ga or a 28ga I have use both gun and I like the 28ga for shoots out to about 35yds if I know my shoots will be longer I go with 16ga

I have ZH221 16 gauge shotgun with 3/4 chokes (I belive something like IM it could be in american slang). I bought it for about 100U$D (in used condition), but with mirror shine barrels etc. I will never change it, very light and balanced . . .Ammo was problem but now S&B ammo is widely aviable, there is also cheap (and relatively good) ammo from clever mirage (29gr, shots from 2mm to 4mm (#9 to #1 - full range), there is also winchester super X and 1 1/4 oz. federal premium, remington, fiocchi etc . . .

Don't overlook a clean tight side by side 16 on a light frame. Lefever, Sterlingworth, Ithaca, Field grade LC Smith. Not sure whether Baker made any 16's. Or a "modern" SKB or spanish or lessor known Italian maybe.
Nothing shoulders like a well pitched side by side. I have a 16 guage Sterlingworth made in the mid 30's on a twenty frame that is my favorite shotgun of all time for feel and mounting ( based on the number I have shot over the years of skeet, sporting clays, and in the field, that's saying something). I have shot very expensive competition over unders and balanced autos with carbon and weighting work; but there is something almost magical about a good light side by side.

[ 09-27-2003, 03:25: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

I second, Old and Slow. A nice 16 or 20 ga aya SXS from Bill Hanus is what you want. I bought a 20ga from him 4 yr back and got rid of my Browning o/u and Rem 1100. By far the best gun I ever owned. I've shot a lot of quail and pheasants with it over my Britt in E. WA It's light weight and Skeet 1 and 2 chockes make it about perfect when shooting over a pointing dog. I also own a real nice 16 and 12 ga SXS's. Both are real light

I've had three 16 gauges, one 20 and two 12's. I reach for the 16 everytime over my 12 gauge. My current 16 is a F.A.I.R. Rizzini and my previous was a 1948 L.C. Smith Ideal.

I reload but more because I like to throw an ounce of 7's and those aren't manufactured. I would still shoot the 16 even if I didn't reload. I find Federal 1 oz. 6's frequently at Wally World for $4.99 a box. The Winchester 1 oz. 6's are junk and Fiocchi's, when I find them, are a bit high in pressures. The Kent Tungsten-matrix 5's are great but expensive. One major problem, as I see it, with manufactured loads, is they are pushed to high velocities. My reloads are around 1200 and a delight to shoot.

The disadvantage of a 16 is that you'll have a heck of a time finding decent shells in a hunting destination if you forget them at home. Other than that, you'll get the advantage of a lighter shotgun and that makes a big difference if you're going to walk six hours a day, three days in a row.

I will say that I shot my 20 gauge Beretta 687 better than any shotgun I've ever owned. It killed pheasants dead.

The major disadvantage of the "lesser" gauges is when you want to shoot larger pellets in higher quantities. 300 pellets seems to be about the right number of pellets for an upland load. 1 oz. of 7's fits this bill but to get 300 pellets in 6's you need 1 3/8 oz. That can only be filled with at least a 12 gauge. And 5's, 1 oz. of 5's is 172 pellets!

I agree 100% with Donato, skeet 1 and 2 are perfect for upland hunting. I shoot .003" constriction in both barrels of my 16 which equates to about skeet 1.

[ 11-21-2003, 20:31: Message edited by: parshal ]

I like break-open guns in the field for a couple of reasons......(1) they handle better for me and I shoot better with them, and (2) they are much easier to empty each time you cross a fench or a road or want to unload while you navigate some treacherous footing.

I don't like others I'm hunting with to use auto-loaders in the field (except for dove shooting where you basically stand in one spot) for a couple of reasons...(1)seems like everytime there's a flush they feel the need to empty the gun, (2) they do throw empties all over the place and I hate to see empties in the field, and (3) I can't tell when they're empty when they should be empty.....as in (2) above.

As I get older I find that I am setting my standards higher and higher with respect to whom I am willing to share my time in the outdoors and that means I no longer tolerate things like unruly dogs, game hogs, those who don't take extreme care not to let their barrel point at me or anyone else, etc.....this has now expanded to auto-loaders in the hands of those I don't know and trust.

After all said and done, i bought a used winchester 1400 semi auto 20 gauge. Thanks for all the input though.