Hi folks,

is there any good O/U with 3 1/2" chambers currently in production? I am looking for better quality shotgun, nice wood and finish, not any camo stuff.

I know it will kick hard. I know I will use it occasionally for 3 1/2". I am recoil tolerant.

Any REAL drawback for shooting 2 3/4 or 3"?

Jiri

I thought at one time Beretta and/or Browning made an o/u chambered for 3.5" shells, but I don't see them listed. CZ shows one. There should be no problem firing 2-3/4"-3" shells in a 3.5" chamber. Just the thought of launching 1-7/8-2oz. of shot from a 7.5# shotgun makes my head hurt. My Ithaca 10 ga. auto fully loaded weighs 11.5# and with 2-1/4 oz. of shot it is a hand full.
C.G.B.

The beretta Onyx will be about the best 3.5 O/U you’ll find. Shojkd be able to find one used easily. No one I ever knew who had one ever shot more than a handful of 3.5s out of them. Just too much.

Beretta made the 687SC model and Browning did a Waterfowl model also with 89mm chambers.

You can buy some more budget guns like Yildiz and Lincoln also.

Thank you guys.

I have .585 Hubel Express rifle 10 pounds 8.4 oz, so I know something about recoil ;-)

I am not planning to use 3 1/2" on daily basis, but it is good to have possibility for it when you need it (for gooses).

I already asked Bettinsoli dealer for prices (Diamond line), will maybe do the same with Yildiz.

I know Browning and Beretta made it, but what I know not in current production. I was looking for nice Silver Pidgeon or Citori.

3 1/2" is very rare in my country, especially in O/U. So I can't find any used here.

CZ does not offer 3 1/2" shotguns here (maybe made in the USA by CZ-USA).

Jiri

Bud's here in the U.S.has the CZ listed a a "CZ Brno 801.1". Charles Daly also lists some but they all seem to have the camo treatment.
C.G.B.

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
Thank you guys.

I have .585 Hubel Express rifle 10 pounds 8.4 oz, so I know something about recoil ;-)

I am not planning to use 3 1/2" on daily basis, but it is good to have possibility for it when you need it (for gooses).

I already asked Bettinsoli dealer for prices (Diamond line), will maybe do the same with Yildiz.

I know Browning and Beretta made it, but what I know not in current production. I was looking for nice Silver Pidgeon or Citori.

3 1/2" is very rare in my country, especially in O/U. So I can't find any used here.

CZ does not offer 3 1/2" shotguns here (maybe made in the USA by CZ-USA).

Jiri

I can find one here in England if wanted and you can fly over to get or we can get exported

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt Inter:

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
Thank you guys.

I have .585 Hubel Express rifle 10 pounds 8.4 oz, so I know something about recoil ;-)

I am not planning to use 3 1/2" on daily basis, but it is good to have possibility for it when you need it (for gooses).

I already asked Bettinsoli dealer for prices (Diamond line), will maybe do the same with Yildiz.

I know Browning and Beretta made it, but what I know not in current production. I was looking for nice Silver Pidgeon or Citori.

3 1/2" is very rare in my country, especially in O/U. So I can't find any used here.

CZ does not offer 3 1/2" shotguns here (maybe made in the USA by CZ-USA).

Jiri

I can find one here in England if wanted and you can fly over to get or we can get exported

What exactly?

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt Inter:

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
Thank you guys.

I have .585 Hubel Express rifle 10 pounds 8.4 oz, so I know something about recoil ;-)

I am not planning to use 3 1/2" on daily basis, but it is good to have possibility for it when you need it (for gooses).

I already asked Bettinsoli dealer for prices (Diamond line), will maybe do the same with Yildiz.

I know Browning and Beretta made it, but what I know not in current production. I was looking for nice Silver Pidgeon or Citori.

3 1/2" is very rare in my country, especially in O/U. So I can't find any used here.

CZ does not offer 3 1/2" shotguns here (maybe made in the USA by CZ-USA).

Jiri

I can find one here in England if wanted and you can fly over to get or we can get exported

What exactly?

Anything you want. In the UK we have a lot of used guns and sure can easily find one for you.

The citori white lightning and waterfowl editions both could be had with 3.5” barrels. Recoil is not that bad.

I don't know about current options but I wanted a Beretta and ended up sourcing one in the US on gunbroker and imported it into Oz.

It's designation is 686 Onyx Pro. This model has a dull finish and is fitted with Beretta Xtra wood stocks.

It is quite light for 3.5" shells, but with the gel type recoil pad that it came with it's not too bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Jiri:
Hi folks,

is there any good O/U with 3 1/2" chambers currently in production? I am looking for better quality shotgun, nice wood and finish, not any camo stuff.

I know it will kick hard. I know I will use it occasionally for 3 1/2". I am recoil tolerant.

Any REAL drawback for shooting 2 3/4 or 3"?

Jiri

I have nothing to add about 3-1/2" chambered O/U guns. But I have killed a truck load of waterfowl shooting 2-3/4" 1-3/8 oz. lead shot in my old Browning Superposed. I would NOT want to shoot anything heavier in a lighter weight O/U gun. Steel shot does change the picture a bit, but I use the new plastic/tungsten shot when I hunt waterfowl now... which is only occasionally.

Alec Torres:

Now, I have 16 gauge 2 3/4" made in 1914 in Ferlach, Austria. It is over one hundred years old now. I want to keep it for occasional hunting. It killed a lot of different game.

As I said, I don't need 3.5" much, but if I will invest money to a new shotgun, I want to have a possibility to use 3.5" if I will need/want it.

Jiri

Jiri

My main bird guns are a 16 Ga. Fox and a 16 ga. Scottish Harkom. Both do fine on most upland birds. As a I metioned in my last post, I seldom hunt waterfowl these days, but am consumed with running my bird dogs on quail, prairie grouse, chukars and grey partridge. The 16s work very well for this.

Still, waterfowling often takes many shots in an outing and whatever you can do to reduce recoil will be helpful. I cannot find any reason to use anything larger than a 12 ga. 3" cartridge. Proper shooting is more effective than lots of shot in the air!

I've never had much use for the 3 1/2" loads.

I ordered new Bettinsoli Diamond X Grade,
12/89 (12 3 1/2"), 32" barrels.

Jiri

Actually, for a game shooter that handloads, I can see the point, the huge advantage of a 3 1/2" 12 Gauge.

For, surely, does it not by its extra length allow the user to get the same weight of shot made from a a lighter density metal and therefore bulkier (steel, iron, bismuth, tin) into the cartridge?

But that wouldn't be able to fit inside a standard 2 3/4" cartridge YET at the same time use a full length fibre or felt wad?

Also I'd guess you could handload the old fashioned "low velocity" rounds that sacrificed velocity for an increased payload of shot for use at shorter ranges?

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
Actually, for a game shooter that handloads, I can see the point, the huge advantage of a 3 1/2" 12 Gauge.

For, surely, does it not by its extra length allow the user to get the same weight of shot made from a a lighter density metal and therefore bulkier (steel, iron, bismuth, tin) into the cartridge?

But that wouldn't be able to fit inside a standard 2 3/4" cartridge YET at the same time use a full length fibre or felt wad?

Also I'd guess you could handload the old fashioned "low velocity" rounds that sacrificed velocity for an increased payload of shot for use at shorter ranges?

The extra length in shotgun cartridges either provide heavier shot loads at similar velocity as shorter cartridges or higher velocity with same shot load as shorter cartridges. The trade off either way is more recoil with the heavier or faster longer cartridges.

There would be absolutely no point in shooting the same pay load at same velocity in a 76mm cartridge as you can shoot in a 70mm cartridge, in fact the shorter cartridge under these circumstances will likely perform better as the shot string is shorter giving a better killing pattern.

No, I disagree. It may be that I've not explained fully enough. Lead shot isn't water but solid. Therefore if you increase the diameter of each pellet it won't, at some point, all fit in the cartridge unless either the wad format or the crimp method is changed.

All modern crimp closure cartridges in fact sacrifice wad column height. The old and far superior white felt wads were replaced with shorter fibreboard wads.

The obvious example is LG or as the Americans call it OOO buckshot. Simply you either reduce the wad height or if the wad height is to be keptbthe same useva roll crimp. So a 3" or 3.5" chamber gun could I assume load a load of nine LG or OOO (as a 2.75" or 70mm chamber gun) but still have BOTH the same height of the wad column AND a standard six fold full crimp closure IF A LOADER DESIRED IT.

The "low velocity" loads I've maybe not best explained. In the past, the muzzle loading age, and I think early cartridge age, these were relatively common. They sacrificed velocity to allow a heavier charge of shot to be loaded in a gun than the usual standard weight.

In the UK in the catridge loading era this was the old Eley Maximum loading. Allowing the owner of a 1 1/8 ounce gun shooting a 2 1/2 cartridge to shoot a 2 1/2 cartridge firing 1 3/16 ounce of shot yet it would still fit in the 2 1/2 case that the gun would only chamber.

So whilst the standard weight may have been 1 1/8 ounce by reducing the powder charge and so the velocity the user could increase his payload of shot to 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 ounce.

Thus, as with the Eley Maximum, I guess that the modern 3.5" chamber gun could, perhaps therefore if handloaded allow the user to shoot the equivalent of an 8 Bore shot load although at the sacrifice of velocity.

Here in Czech Republic we can still use lead shot even for waterfowl (with some exceptions).

So what ammo or load to use for high flying geese?

On the other hand, what load to use (3.5") if I want to be "completely environmental friendly" including biodegradable wads for the same purpose and what real world difference will be to lead/plastic wad load/ammo?

Jiri

Bettinsoli Diamond X Grade I picked up on friday (cellphone photo):


32" tubes, shoots very well

I also tried Fiocchi Ultramagnum (3 1/2", 2 1/4 oz lead shot). Not that bad at all when standing. Also shot few clays with that with double taps. Tried also shooting off a bench, but that feels much harder of course.

I didn't weigh the shotgun yet, but feels light for that long tubes.

Jiri

I had a Browning Citori with 3.5” chambers. Was a matte blue, satin walnut stock gun. Great for waterfowl.

I get used to 3.5" shells in O/U (also after summer shooting my 585 HE). Of course I will not use for clay shooting, but for hunting I can't say there is big difference compared to 1 1/4" oz 2 3/4" loads. I also bought Muller Chokes for that, so I am really happy with the shotgun!

I have used 3 1/2” cartridges, albeit in a Benelli Nova. I now have 3” Franchi affinity. I cant say i really notice much difference in the killing power of a heavy load of steel shot on geese. Hit them well forward they come down dead. Hit them at the back end they just carry on or give the hound a lot of exercise.

I would just stick with a reasonably heavy but well fitting 3” 12. If you want to shoot heavier loads then get a 10 bore.

I actually shoot a lot of 3.5" shells while hunting, but for the reason that enfieldspares points out. I could make do with lesser sized shells, but it would cost more to get factory shells (as I haven't found a recipe in a manual that does quite what I want with the shorter shells.)

The main load I use is a duplicate of the old short magnum lead load using bismuth shot. (1.5 oz bismuth at 1350 FPS) which is my main duck load. You can also duplicate any 3" lead load as well.

The 3.5" chamber really works better than the 3" chamber with steel or tungsten as you can protect the bore better and have more space to work with. As I see it, its not really advantageous to stuff more lead shot, as it doesn't pattern that great compared to similar loads in 10 Ga; although a 2.25 oz turkey load is good when you need it, but I can certainly see in a country where you have only so much license space how a 3.5" 12 bore O/U will deal with all your game shooting needs in one gun.

If you can get wads made to your spec (like the manufacturers do) along with non-cannister grade propellants, yes, the 3.5" isn't a lot better than the 3" shell for anything other than steel. Fundamentally, you are paying a price for incremental improvements.

Do you need it? Only you can say, but if you are going to be taking longer ranged pass shots at waterfowl, its either a 3.5" 12 ga or a 10 ga here; I think that a 3.5" chambered 12 ga is probably the most versatile shotgun out there now- assuming you get one that fits you and you can handle the recoil on the heavy loads and carry it (due to weight) afield for the upland use.

BTW I already have a lot of TSS shot for reloading, Fiocchi 3.5" primed hulls, proper wads etc. Now waiting for powder which is out of stock in my country for a 6 months or so.

Will try TSS buckshot too.

I like the rifle. It points well for me, really good with Muller chokes, I can shot from target loads to heavy magnums. What to want more?

Jiri

Since I aready have an O/U with 3.5'' chambers I would appreciate any suggestions for a S/S one.