The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Other Topics Shotgunning 16 gauge users, post up!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 16 gauge users, post up! | Login/Join |
| <gamecock> |
Mr. 16 Gauge: Can't respond as a 16 ga user, but as a proud, new owner of a Fox Sterlingworth, 16 bore. Haven't even shot it yet, but am looking forward to using it a bunch, both for target and wildfoul. Have always thought the 16 on a 20 ga frame made a certain amount of sense, and in fact the Fox w/28" bbls. does weigh several ounces less than my 20ga O/U w/26 inchers. Loads? Haven't looked seriously yet at the options, although I am aware that low end 16s approach 20 ga levels and high end the 12. Would be interrested to know which loads you use for various applications, ie. quail, dove, pheasants... | ||
|
| <Paul Dustin> |
I have 3 16ga Ithaca 37, Winchester 97, and Savage Steven 107. I do use them for hunting I go fron a 28ga to 12ga I try to use them all and I use factory ammo and reloads | ||
|
| one of us |
I do quite a bit of hunting with a Belgian Browning Sweet Sixteen that was given to me by my father. I usually just hunt upland game with it due to not wanting to run steel shot through it, when I can even fing 16 gauge steek shot that is. I use only factory shells. Mac ------------------ | |||
|
one of us |
Mr. 16 gauge, Between the wife and I we have five 16 ga guns (2-Browning Citori O/U, 1 Win M-12, 1 Browning Sweet 16, and the fifth I don't remember just now). We hunt with the two Citoris now, and use both reloads and factory ammo. We hunt upland birds, but not waterfowl. When Winchester was making their 1 0z 16 ga wad I bought a case of them, and that keeps the reloading going. The best hunting factory ammo was some Fiocchi plated shot loads I got from Bill Hanus...jim dodd ------------------ | |||
|
| <Mr.16 gauge> |
Thanks all....keep the replys coming! Glenn: For pheasant: 2 3/4" Winchester Compression formed hull Small game loads: Federal hi-power 2 3/4" hull Remington 2 3/4" SP hull I use these loads for grouse, woodcock, quail, partridge, rabbit, ect. Use your favorite shot size for each species. BISMUTH SHOT I have another load for bismuth using the WAA16 wad, but since it is no longer made, the point is somewhat mute. If you haven't shot ducks over decoys with a 16 gauge & bismuth, you don't know what you are missing. I have had good success with both factory and handloaded bismuth loads. I have NOT had good luck with 16 gauge steel...too slow & not enough payload! I wouldn't run steel through any older 16 gauge, esp. a double. I tried Tungsten matrix this year with poor success, but to be fair the load I was using was the 1 oz of #6 shot at 1200 fps...an upland load. It would knock the quackers down, but they ALL required finishing shots. Next year I plan on trying some of the 1 1/16 oz of #5 shot at 1315 fps. I also have some loads I plan on patterning for turkey hunting. Good luck, good hunting, and thanks for the responses. ------------------ | ||
|
| one of us |
I have a nice french 16 SXS wit 27in barrels and weighs only 5.5 lbs. nice engraving ect. Works great as a grouse gun. | |||
|
| <gamecock> |
Nr. 16 gauge: thanks for the info. One more project to fit into the 'void' between the seasons. Good hunting and Happy Hoildays! | ||
|
| one of us |
16 gauge krupp side by side Love it for pheasents | |||
|
| <Mr.16 gauge> |
I forgot to mention in my previous post: some folks out there have guns with modified or full chokes that they might want to use on close flushing upland game, such as quail, woodcock, or grouse. I have an Ithica M37 with a modified choke. I tried to get tubes installed, but the walls of the barrel were too thin. My only other option to get wider patterns was a poly choke. Then I found a little gizmo called the "poly-wad spreader". It looks like a little golf tee and is placed on top of the shot charge prior to crimping, with the post down into the shot. It is advertised to open the choke 1-2 degrees, and it does open the patterns on my M37. My load for this cartridge is as follows: Remington 16 gauge 2 3/4 inch case Good luck and good hunting! ------------------ | ||
|
| <gamecock> |
Mr 16, and/or others: Is there any reason not to shoot the heaviest commercial 16 ga loads in a Fox Sterlingworth? | ||
|
one of us |
I have an old wards western field pump that my folks got used for my 16th birthday. it was an good old gun then and an even better older gun now. I use it on early season grouse. Here in Mich.the leaves are still on at that time. I like the poly choke set at imp. cyl. I use factory loads of what ever I can get with 71/2 or 8 shot. I still have my reloader and save my hulls but got tired of trying to find componets. Al | |||
|
| <BigBores> |
I primarily hunt birds with 16 ga. I have a win M-12, 28 inch bbl and fixed full choke, great quail gun, and a Stoeger side by side, 26 inch bbls IC and MOD that is surprisingly good at knocking dove down for the price. I also have a Fox that I don't hunt with, 2 1/2 chambers. Mostly I only shoot handloads as factory selection is non-existant here. I do sometimes buy the cheap Rem shells when a local sporting goods store puts them on sale for $2.99 a box, that's hard to pass up for 16 ga shells. I cannot wait to get my hands on a new Rem 16 ga Wingmaster! The screw in chokes will finally put me on the same level as my 12 ga buddies who can just swap chokes and get back at em. I have also wanted the Ithica featherweight with the screw in chokes but I have not found a single gunshop in the Phx area that has one to even look at and decide if I like it or not. | ||
|
| <Slamfire> |
I've got a Winchester Model 12 with a full choke, that I can't hit the side of a barn with from the inside. I inherited it. I also have a Cresent side by side once bored full and modified. I had the modified choke opened to improved cylinder and am happy with the results. I tried loading, but getting supplies for anything but 1 1/8 loads was too much trouble. And the factory loads leave an awful lot to be desired, unless you buy imported stuff for big bucks. They are both gatherin' dust, but will stay in the family. I'm using a Mossy 500 Canoe Paddle for everything the 16 excels at. | ||
|
| <gamecock> |
16 ga shooters! There's plenty of ammo available from all the major mfgrs., including Fiocchi, from heavy mag. 4s to 9s and even a buckshot and steel load from Federal. Most any sporting goods store will order you anything you want from a few boxes to a case. Fiocchi has best price I've found at abt. 7 bucks a pop for dove loads in 6, 7 1/2 or 8s, to 8 bucks for field loads  . GO SHOOT!And, please let me repeat a question: is it OK to shoot the heavy stuff in a Fox Sterlingworth, 373XXX? | ||
|
| <Mr.16 gauge> |
Glen; The problem isn't the availability of shells, but the VARIETY of 16 gauge loadings. Case in point: the absence of ANY shell loaded with #5 shot. IMHO, I feel that 1 1/8 oz of copper or nickle plated #5s is the ULTIMATE in pheasant medicine. The only other copper plated shot that I know of is available in Federal loadings, and that only comes in #4 or #6. 1 1/4 oz loads are quickly disappearing. Sabots are rare (I think lightfield might be making them), but so what...no one makes a rifled barrel for the 16 gauge. Nontoxic loads: only two offerings from Bismuth (#4 and #6 field (not heavy) load), and two for ITM (1 oz #6 shot @1200 fps...hardly a waterfowl load, and 1 1/16oz #5 shot @ 1315 fps). If you have ever shot a 16 gauge steel shotshell at a duck, you would know how abysmall they really are....Kent can give us "fast steel" in 12 & 20 gauge, why not 16? Why not give us a load with #3 steel, instead of only #2 or #4 shot? Fiocchi does make several loadings for 16 gauge, but they aren't as good as they can be....they offer a 1 1/8 oz "Field load" at 1185 fps. I can reload the same payload to 1240 fps with little difficulty. Which load would you rather shoot at a ruffed grouse? Also, I don't know about your sporting goods dealers, but unless you want a case of ammo, most of the ones around here cant be bothered. One a side note, a lot of the Fiocchi field loads are in 2 1/2 inch hulls....I found this out the hard way while on a woodcock hunt and I inadvertantly found that I could stuff four shells in the gun instead of the mandatory 3! Glad I hadn't any birds in my possesion. These are good news for those folks who have guns chambered for the older 2 9/16" chamber and do not wish to have them altered. As for your question: As long as your gun has a 2 3/4" chamber and doesn't have damascus barrels, I don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot modern shotshells through the gun. If you have any doubts, a competent gunsmith ought to be able to tell you quickly enough. Good luck and good hunting. ------------------ | ||
|
| <gamecock> |
Mr. 16 ga: Try finding #5s for a 20 ga. in a store, in either 2 3/4 or 3" variety. I happen to agree that 5s are the ideal pheasant load, but that said we go with what's available - in the 20 ga, 3", I go with 6s in the IC tube and 4s in Mod. Works. Did find some 20 ga 5s in Miller, SD, tho'. | ||
|
| <Red Green> |
I shoot the 16 almost exclusively until the end of the season when the weather gets bad and the pheasants flush long. The sixteen that sees most use is a Browning Citori Lightning, but I've also got a 16 ga. Ithaca Ultra Featherlight on order. They're a bit on the high side, but Ithaca is putting nice wood on them. I'm a sucker for nice wood. If anyone's interested, the link to look at one is http://www.ithacagun.com/news/pressroom/htm/16_feather.html. I saw on Remington's site that they're making the 870 in sixteen again. May have to add another to the stable. I also have a Spanish sidelock in sixteen, but I never use it, so I'm in the process of selling it. I load my own shells for my 16s. Glenn, BTW, "Krupp" ("Krupp Stahl" or Krupp steel, is usu. seen) is a brand of steel made in Germany and is not the maker of the gun. If the maker's name is not to be found, it's likely a guild gun. Krupp steel barrels were generally used on higher end guns, so you've likely got a nice one. | ||
|
| one of us |
My dad came from the generation that believed a man was sufficiently equipped if he had a .22, a deer rifle, and a shotgun. His used his Sweet Sixteen for everything from grouse to pheasants to ducks to deer. He passed away a year ago next week and that old Browning is amoung my most prized possesions and is the gun I invariably reach for hunting upland game. It carries and points like a dream and always makes me feel like he is along with me in the field. I also have an old (circa 1920) Model 12 that was my great-grandfathers. It has 2 5/16" chambers and is mostly a keepsake. Jeff | |||
|
| <ringneck> |
I love my 16 gauge shotguns! My wife and I both hunt with 16 gauge Citori's when hunting pheasants. I also have a model 12 and a Merkel o/u made in 1941. I had a sweet 16 A-5 but I sold it due to it's weight. My Citori is lighter and handles much better. My only gripe is 16 gauge guns on 12 gauge frames. No thanks. Shawn | ||
|
| <ringneck> |
I forgot to ask if anyone knows when the new Ithaca 16 gauge special edition will be out. I see that Red Green above ordered one. I know they are taking orders for them now but wasn't sure when they would deliver. Boy, a 5 1/2 pound 16 sure would be nice to tote all day. Pretty expensive at $750 though. Shawn | ||
|
| one of us |
This is the markings on my double S/S special gewehr-lauf'-stahl My grandfather won it in a poker game and gave it to my father when he was a kid, so he could clean up the sparrows on the farm. My father brought it to Canada,from Denmark, in the mid 60's and gave it to me when i started hunting. My father wasn't a hunter, and my grandfather passed away before i was born, so I have no idea what it really is. Can anybody tell me what i have? | |||
|
| <Red Green> |
Alstro, According to Carder's Side by Sides of the World, Simson & Co. began in Suhl, Germany, in 1910, and their title was Waffenfabrik Simson & Company. Suhl is in former East Germany, and after WWII, Simson operated under the authority of the USSR. Although made in Suhl, your gun was most likely proved in Essen. If you're interested in the proof marks, I'd suggest The Standard Directory of Proof Marks by Gerhard Wirnsberger. | ||
|
| <THUNDER> |
To 16 gauge users: New available guns -- Browning o/u, Rem. Mod 870 pump,Merkel s/s on 20 gauge frame,Ithaca s/s, F.A.I.R. o/u on true 16 gauge frame, F. Poli s/s on 20 gauge frame. I hope this will help anybody interested in a new 16. I love my L.C. Smith 16 gauge. Also Baschieri & Pellagri have a nice 1 1/32 oz. load called the F2 in 16 gauge in various shot sizes. I think they will load custom loads. T | ||
|
| new member |
Well I'am on my 2nd 16 ga had a old mossburg about 20 years ago sold it and then in about 89 I picked up a pair of Remington 48 one in 16 the other in 20 the 16 is my gun since then I shot the 20 some about a box of shells it sets along with four 12 ga of one type or another. I shoot factory loads in my gun this is one from the early 50's along with the 20 the old man I picked them up from liked the 16 also and hardly shot the 20 also it looks new while the 16 looks loved | |||
|
| <Red Green> |
Shawn, I spoke to Jeff Walker at Ithaca Gun today, and he said that aluminum billets were due in this week, and the first 250 receivers will be built next month. He's still awaiting shipment of the wood, and he estimated they'd be shipped by the end of March, but he gave no guarantees. He said the two they've built to take to the SHOT Show in a couple of weeks look great, and he said the wood is beautiful. | ||
|
| <ringneck> |
Red, thanks for the update. The one they have pictured on their site sure does look pretty. Shawn | ||
|
| <Paleohunter> |
Well I have only one 16ga it was my Grandpas' he gave it to me right befor he passed away. I dont know who made it. the only name on it is Ranger 101. I know its probaly worthless but it was mt Grandpas' so its priceless to me. I use it for Dove here in TX and have taken a Ring neck or two in OK with it. I solved my ammo problem by going to Westley Richards and buying their shells a case at a time the only prob is there loaded to Old World standerds. | ||
|
| one of us |
I'm late to the party but will share a story from last September's South Dakota hunt. Used a Manufrance 16 double, the one with the sling built into the stock and a 1940 Winchester model 12. Both guns performed admirably, knocking down sharptails, huns and doves. Hunted reservation land and even found 16-gauge loads in a small Ace hardware store. Used Winchester 6s and found Fiocchi 6s (1 1/8 oz. and 3 1/4 drams equivalent) to be brutal in the French double; first time ever that a gun beat up my middle finger. I don't understand why they're loaded so hot. There's no reason to duplicate a moderately heavy 12-gauge load when an ounce of shot will do. | |||
|
| <Red Green> |
Joe, I agree with you on the hot load point. I used to have a few pre-war doubles before I loaded my own (which cause me to get into 16 reloading), and the factory stuff is made, it seems, to max dram without fail. Federal premium 16s use 1-1/4 oz. of shot and max dram. At that point, you might as well use a 12. Been thwacked once on a 16 double made in Austria. They weren't my loads, and I think they were a little on the hot side. The gun wasn't mine, either, and I don't recall the maker, but it was a sweet little SLE on a 16 frame. First diamond grip I'd ever seen. Fell in love with it, but the owner still won't part with it. | ||
|
| one of us |
Red Green, You are a man of good taste and sensibilities. Those Fiocchi loads were managable in the model 12 but I can't envision 1 1/4 ounce loads in a 16. Pure insanity. | |||
|
| one of us |
i also have 5 sixteens and hunt with them regularilly 1 bel.sweetsixteen in 100.00 condition.2 jap.16,s one new in box.the other is my everyday gun.Had barrel shorten by briley to 24 inches and re choked.this is and all-some rabbit and quail gun. i wood duck hunt with a citoria, and dove hunt with a fox AE double. use 12ga. on deer and passing duck only. handload bismuth for duck.use federal 2 3/4 dram 1 1//8oz field load in 7 1/2 on rabbit and dove. no. 8,s on quail... | |||
|
| one of us |
I got one of the 1st new Ithaca's a few years ago. Great gun,but I'm not impressed with the wood. Maybe I just got a plain one-mine is the classic style with the round forearm. I liked enough to buy an older 12ga. Slickest pump I've ever handled. Made in 1958 and in 98% condition-what a gun. | |||
|
| <cohoyo> |
I have my dads 16 ga 870 and two cases of shells he bought in the 60's. I took it ptarmigan hunting this fall and did really well with it. We had a trap shoot here (very rare) and I won several annie oakly shoots with it. when my contract is up here i'm planing on moving close to a good range so I can shoot it more. | ||
|
| <Mr Stainless> |
I have a nice Browning side by side 16 ga that I use for fox hunting. Its a real sweet and easy to carry around all day. I have never felt a need for a 12 ga for this type of hunt (or any other when I think about it). | ||
|
| one of us |
Is that 16-gauge a Browning or an FN? I never knew Browning to make a 16-gauge side-by-side. Please tell us more. | |||
|
| <Ranger Dave> |
I own a CIL 401 16 gauge. It was my very first shotgun. | ||
|
| <Mr Stainless> |
JoeZ: Youre right... I had to get into the sealed boxes in the garage to get the papers about the invoice, dated 1903! Its says Belgian made 16 ga. He always said "my Browning" Sorry. Its still a beautiful shotgun. He also had it reconditioned 1949. It doesnt say what they did to it though... | ||
|
one of us |
quote: It seems to be a pre-WWII Simson from Suhl in Germany. The "Krupp"-marking indicates steel quality from the krupp works in Essen - "Spezial Gewehrlaufstahl" (special gun barrel steel) is one of their steel brands. Aren�t there any numbers? E.g. my old Sauer S-b-s is stamped 135, which means january 1935. 1235 would mean december of the same year. Code: month-year. They stamped those numbers at the proof houses. "Autovelo" seems to be a marking of the firm that sold it. Some dealers used to stamp guns with their own brand. Simson was one of the major gun factories in Suhl, the main german gun factory town before WWII. Other well-renowned firms in Suhl before WWII are Sauer, Sempert-Krieghoff, Merkel, Fortuna, and B�hag (short for B�chsenmachergenossenschaft). Guns are still produced in Suhl and during the communist wealth in Eastern Germany they were produced by the Th�lmann-Werke but sold as Simson, Merkel or B�hag. The quality decreased after the WWII, as the russian brought the machines to Russia. Some old machinery was still left but they worn-out and the steel quality was inferior to the Krupp steel, which was produced in Western Germany. Merkel or other Suhl guns made later than around 1970 were roughly made and product control was bad. Today fine guns are made there again and quality has increased remarkably. Merkel and Simson make fine guns today at reasonable prices and they also use the Krupp steel again. www.merkel-waffen.de has good information. But I dare to say that your old Simson is much better balanced than today�s german shotguns, which tend to lack some elegancy. It�s a fine gun you have, and if it�s in good shape, it will have some value. And the 16-gauge is a very fine cartridge in a light shotgun: the gun is lighter than the 12-gauge but not as short and tiny as the 20-gauge. I always wonder why they have become so rare. Best regards, Fritz | |||
|
| one of us |
I own two shotguns a Model 12 16 ga. and a 870 .410. I use the 16 ga. for all my hunting which is mainly dove, quail and pheasants. Points like a dream and kills what I hit (some days a lot and some days not much). All the while weighing 6 lbs., it is just as quick to the shoulder at 5:30 PM as it was at 7:30 AM. Saludos | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Other Topics Shotgunning 16 gauge users, post up!
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |