At first thought, cartridges/shells are used to project a mass towards a target. But cartridges have been made for many uses other than bullet/shot propulsion:
Markers .....chalk "bullets" .....flares (visual and/or infra-red) .....smoke (signal as opposed to ground cover)
There were some time ago aircraft engines which required a 12-gauge shotshell (blank, presumably) to be inserted into a special chamber to aid in starting. Firing the shotshell turned the propeller and cranked the engine.
Some one with more knowledge about aircraft engines may be able to tell you more.
Antenna extection uses blanks, usually a special one. Also harpoon guns have used blanks, and of course line launching kits in naval use etc, to launch a line from one ship to another.
quote:Originally posted by JackM: Tell me about the perfume
(Some) people used to shoot SMALL calibre guns in their parlor. Thses may have been "adaptor" - types (ie: subcalibre) for larger guns. After a session of shooting, the parlor would 'stink'--- so a round of perfume would be fired to keep the women happy.
I cannot find the article that talked about this--- I'll keep looking for it. If anyone else can add to this, please do so.
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by JackM: Tell me about the perfume
(Some) people used to shoot SMALL calibre guns in their parlor. Thses may have been "adaptor" - types (ie: subcalibre) for larger guns. After a session of shooting, the parlor would 'stink'--- so a round of perfume would be fired to keep the women happy.
I'm glad you put "stink" in quotation marks, since that is such a harsh word and quite subjective.
Posts: 588 | Location: Maryland | Registered: 08 April 2003
I have a buddy that has a Line Throwing gun, in 45-70. He asked me what the "blanks" are loaded with. I`m assuming it`s BP, based on the few fired cases he got with the gun that are corroded. Is there a source of info for the blank loads?
Posts: 116 | Location: Finger Lakes, New York, | Registered: 10 September 2003
What about mortar primary charges ? And not forgetting the WW1 French .450 Blank used as a flat tyre indicator on large wheeled vehicles , or the engine starters used on real early tractors like the Bulldog Lanz , or the industrial cable splicers or the cable cutters used by WW1 airmen to deal with the cables hung beneath barrage ballons . I confess the perfume one has me perplexed - my missus just uses an atomizer.....
Posts: 4471 | Location: Eltham , New Zealand | Registered: 13 May 2002
How about Ramset/Hilti guns to drive nails into steel or timber. I recall when I worked on a mine site in the Northern Territory they had a 45/70 Hilti to drive 9" spikes into hardwood.
Posts: 1785 | Location: Kingaroy, Australia | Registered: 29 April 2002
quote:Originally posted by Bad Ass Wallace: How about Ramset/Hilti guns to drive nails into steel or timber. I recall when I worked on a mine site in the Northern Territory they had a 45/70 Hilti to drive 9" spikes into hardwood.
Here, plastic 12 gauge blanks are used to drive railroad spikes into the ties to hold the rails!
I consider these to be 'Stud Drivers'---- see my response to Muzza (below) for comments on the classification terminology.
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by muzza: ...WW1 French .450 Blank used as a flat tyre indicator on large wheeled vehicles , ....or the industrial cable splicers or the cable cutters ....
Thanks for the flat-tyre usage, I hadn't heard of that. I had thought about the cable-cutters, but don't know anything about them, so I didn't list that application. Tell me more about how the cable-SPLICER works.
TERMINOLOGY may get in the way of this discussion----all of the applications use the cartridge as a 'gas generator'. Some for making noise, some for driving a projectile (bullet, line, bolt/nail, jaws of a wire-cutter?, etc); what I'm interested in, is all the specific uses a (brass- or plastic- cased) cartridge has beyond the "normal" gun usage.
Ultimately, of course, I want a sample of EACH!! (It's true--I WANT one, but I don't expect to ever acquire a French WWI, flat-tyre indicating blank!)
Thanks to each person that has answered--- please keep thinking of other uses.
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
cable splicer..... hmmm. I have two different types , the first is from Mine Safety Appliances Co of Pittsburgh Pa in your own fair land . it is basically a .45 Long Colt case loaded with ? and sealed with an inverted plastic cup . The packet states it is for a steel cable press to be used for 7/16", 1/2" , 5.8", 3/4" and 1"- 6 x 19 Plow Steel Cable . The h/s states MSA S&A PRESS .
The second version is a plastic bodied gizmo that looks like a shotshell , well sorta like , that is for use with joining power cables by the sleeve method . the two opposing ends of cable are pushed past each other in a steel sleeve and then the "gun" is attached to fire a steel wedge into the sleeve between the two cables , locking them together . These ones come in a variety of colours which I presume denotes the strength of charge . Maker unknown , although somewhere I have seen some information on the cartridge .
I dont know a lot about the French flat tyre warning cartridge , but it does exist . Those French will do anything to be different....( just a joke ).
I can scan my cable splicers if anyone is interested but it is a chore to post pics on this site .Let me know and I will see what I can do .
Posts: 4471 | Location: Eltham , New Zealand | Registered: 13 May 2002
quote:Originally posted by Ross: Seat ejection charge. Was the canopy also shot off? Cheers from Darkest California, Ross
I had thought of this use, but didn't (don't) know if ejection seats are 'shot' out of the plane, or if they are 'rocketed' away (the old way, at least).
Also, Fourth of July fireworks are 'shot' into the air-- from cardboard "cartridges'.
I had also thought of the explosive bolts that de-couple rocket stages-- but I think that they are not 'cartridges', but rather powder-filled bolts. The wires connecting the rocket stages are cut with a device that shears the wires-- a sharp wedge is driven across a bundle of wires. This is probably similar to the wire cutters and splicers mentioned by muzza. However, the two shears that I've seen (for rocket separation) used a CLOSED brass (or copper) cylinder: one end was a compressed bellows that expanded (from the ignition gases) and drove the wedge through the bundle of wires. They look more like blasting caps.
Usage as primers for larger cartridges or shells was mentioned, already-- the only one I have seen is a British cartridge that used an entire 22 Hornet case as the primer! (I forget what the whole thing was for.)
I've seen (on Auction Arms) some 'blanks' that were listed as for "Punching holes" in steel plate-- I assume these went into a tool that then acted as a 'paper punch'.
Note to ALL: ..I've edited my initial message (to get organised and) to reflect the other usages that you all are telling me about.
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by captnemo: Usage as primers for larger cartridges or shells was mentioned, already-- the only one I have seen is a British cartridge that used an entire 22 Hornet case as the primer! (I forget what the whole thing was for.)
9x51 SMAW, used as a spotting rifle for a shoulder-fired anti-tank weapon (the LAW IIRC). There's a photo of one on the ammo photo gallery on my website. It looks just like a .358 Win until you look at the base. The idea was to produce a high/low pressure cartridge: the Hornet blank formed the high-pressure bit, the gas then expanded into the larger case before pushing the spotting bullet out.
I can add two more from my collection: I have a 'starter cartridge' used with Russian aircraft guns to kickstart them and restart in the event of a failure to fire. I also have a 64mm 'cannon' case which was a special blank used to fire the Squid and Limbo antisubmarine mortars.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Posts: 238 | Location: Derbyshire, UK | Registered: 24 May 2002
Two, one of which may have been touched on: 1) a special (?) 45/70 blank used in a device to blow holes through the web of a a railroad track to allow fishplates to be bolted on, and 2) the cartrdges or charges used in the K-gun that fired a circular array of depth charges, sort of like the Hedge Hog, which came later.
Cartridges firing a cyanide capsule were used is set guns for predator control.
The V C used cartridges set in a block of wood as booby traps,which fired when stepped on,by pressing the primer against a nail. The same concept was used to detonate homemade mines.
quote:Originally posted by Wildcat Crazy: ..The V C used cartridges set in a block of wood as booby traps,which fired when stepped on, by pressing the primer against a nail.
Wc
Were these primers more sensitive that "our" primers?--- It's very easy (wear eye and ear protection) to gently remove a live primer from a case: just don't slam them. "Our" primers require an IMPULSE to fire, not just pressure.
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by Tony Williams: I have a' starter cartridge' used with Russian aircraft guns to kickstart them and restart in the event of a failure to fire.
Tony
I don't understand the RESTART. What is being restarted? Is it restarted while flying? (How does one insert the starter cartridge?)
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by 'Trapper': ... a special (?) 45/70 blank used in a device to blow holes through the web of a a railroad track to allow fishplates to be bolted on,...
I've seen a box of these (rather, I've seen a photo); they were made by Mine Safety Appliances Company--- the same company (mentioned by muzza a few messages up) that made the cable-splicer blanks.
Do you (or anyone) know how these worked? Did the gase blow the hole, or does the gas operate a ram that punches the hole?
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
quote:Originally posted by Tony Williams: I have a' starter cartridge' used with Russian aircraft guns to kickstart them and restart in the event of a failure to fire.
Tony
I don't understand the RESTART. What is being restarted? Is it restarted while flying? (How does one insert the starter cartridge?)
the_captn
My understanding goes something like this: unlike the M61, the Russian guns are gas-operated and have no external power supply. They need some method of charging the first cartridge in a burst. They use separate charging cartridges to provide gas to drive the mechanism to chamber the first cartridge; after that, the gas from the cartridges takes over. A fresh 'charging blank' is used up at the start of each burst, so there is a separate magazine for them (IIRC about ten blanks are carried). The blanks can also be used to restart the gun if there's a dud round.
It isn't only Russian guns which use this system. The Oerlikon KCA 30mm revolver cannon can also be supplied with pyrotechnic rather than hydraulic chargers,
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum
Posts: 238 | Location: Derbyshire, UK | Registered: 24 May 2002
I have seen an apparatus that uses an 8ga cartridge for gathering seismic information relating to what the consistency of the ground below is and what (objects) it contains.
Posts: 2286 | Location: Aussie in Italy | Registered: 20 March 2002
This link shows about the cartridge activated cable connector tool. This may be more than what most people want to read - see page 7 for the cartridges.
quote:Originally posted by EXPRESS: ... 8gac artridge for gathering seismic information ...
Many of these uses are "Why didn't I think of that?"
Of course, theses cartridges were thought of, tested, perfected(?), and marketed! In most cases, I wouldn't even know if the idea would work; certainly I wouldn't know if there was a market for the device! (Maybe that is why 'Venture Capitalists/Investors' don't call me?)
the_captn
Posts: 238 | Location: earth | Registered: 03 October 2001
For purposes of information, I still have a couple of boxes of line throwing blanks in .45-70, made by Winchester with a heavy roll crimp, and a visible red laquered wad about 2/3 of the length down from the case mouth. These are dated 1967, marked wcc (they are out in the garage now and I'm not going out in the rain to doublecheck), are loaded with smokeless, and after the blank is discharged, make excellent reloadable cases. I recollect the one I broke down had a very fine ball powder in it.
Posts: 2374 | Location: Eastern North Carolina | Registered: 27 August 2003
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