I thought this would be a good place for this question...

Did Roy Weatherby come up with the DRS idea or was it around for a while before he used it.

I don't believe Roy Weatherby ever had an original idea when it came to his cartridges but he was a real show-man. The original double radius shoulders were incorporated in the .300 PMVF (Powell-Miller Venturi Freebore).

Other than being unusual geometry, is there supposed to be some sort of advantage with a double radius shoulder?

Master

When was the 300 PMVF introduced? The WBY DSR originated in 1943 and I was under the impression that the PMVF came later. Also, do you know where I might be able to get a PMVF case for my collection?

Wink

I think the biggest advantage to the double radius shoulder has to do with sales and $$$$. I know others have claimed ballistic advantages but they've never been proven as far as I know.

Ray

As for the 300 PMVF, I was only told by "a reliable source" that it predated the 300 Weatherby. I think Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders may have some info on it. I'll look tonight and see what I can come up with.

I think your right on the mark about the "advantage" of the radiused shoulders, no one had made a commercial round like it before and it caught the shooting public's eye for that "new thing" everybody wants. I don't know if the 7 X 61 Sharpe & Hart has the radiused shoulders and whether or not it preceded the Weatherby, but Weatherby sure convinced enough of the shooting public that his cartridge design surpassed all others that it made him a household name and quite well off financially, for a while. Weatherby would have folded if it had not been for Elgin Gates and a few other wealthy men propping it up from time to time. Roy Sr. was more of a sales man than a business man. Maybe his son is doing a better job of managing the business now.

I'm not a Weatherby hater or a fan. His cartridges are as good or as bad as anyone else's like them. I just despised his original claims for his cartridges. I believe at one time, he claimed that a hit anywhere on the body of a North American big game animal was a fatal wound. BS! Gut shot with a .243 or .300 Weatherby is still a gut shot animal.

Guys - if it helps any Richard Simmons in his 1947 Wildcat cartridges book mentions the .300PMVF Magnum and has some ballistics data , so we can assume that the cartridge was around at least in 1946-7. Anybodies guess as to exactly when , but I shall do some more looking in my referance library , cos this is getting interesting.

Ray - Ed Reynolds would be your best bet for a case specimen , but I am not sure if he lists that casetype or no . If you find one see if there is two please mate , buddy , pal ...

Per Accuload (another Ed Reynolds referance) there were 2 Americian Rifleman articles on the 300PMVF in 1943. One in June and another in December.

M in NZ

I'll ask Ed. Maybe he'll even make some for us if I can come up with the proper brass. I'll let you know.

Ray

From what I understand, Roy claimed the DRS allows for better "flow" of the combustion gas as it leaves the case.

I dont love nor hate the Wby cartridges either, but I had always wondered who came up with the DRS idea.

More Info on the PMVF Cartridges from Ackley's Handbook;

"The CCC line of cartridges is one of the older lines of wildcats originated by the late Ralph Waldo Miller. Some time before 1940 Mr. Miller corresponded with the author (P.O.Ackley) quite extensively, mostly in conjunction with developing cartridges with a minimum body taper, and Mr. Miller developed this idea to a greater degree than almost any other wildcatter. Later he was joined in this work by E. Baden Powell and at that time the name PMVF was attached to this line of cartridges. PMVF translates Powell-Miller-Venturified-Freebore. According to F. C. Ness, the "F" in the PMVF nomenclature referred to a freebore or smooth-bore, relieved section extending three-fourths inches up to several inches ahead of the chamber. This line of cartridges incorporated the venturified shoulder."

The book goes on to explain several of the cartridges but nothing of any real importance to the understanding of the idea or time-line of the invention. The picture, however, of both the PMVF Swift and the PMVF .300 shows only the neck-shoulder junction with the radius and not the body-shoulder junction so, Old Roy took them one better and made both the junctions of the neck and shoulder radiused. The article implies that the PMVF .300 was pre-WWII and some of the rest were post-WWII. I can't add much more than this.

Masterifleman is correct. the PMVF well pre-dates the Weatherby artridges, but is not a double radius shoulder, just a single radius. I seem to recall Phil Sharpe writing but the PMVF cartridges being developed in the latter half of the 1930's. The CCC cartridges were actually PMFV's produced by the fella who later took over the shop that made the Powell Miller guns. Someone in the LA area, but the name has slipped my mind. I also recall that there was actually another single-radius shoulder even before the PMVF, but don't have the time right now to go look it up.