Can someone please give me the low down on hunting Bokharan Markhor in Tadjikistan? I know I can't import one as an American, but what's the legality/logistic issues of hunting them? Quite frankly if I can hunt them at a reduced rate I'm fine with leaving it in country for the experience of hunting them. The Pakistani Markhor are a bit hard on the wallet.......

Brett

Awsome animals!!!!

Brett,

Previously I was told it requires a Presidential permit and the price is negotiated (no set price) and still very expensive. As you stated, non exportable.


If this information is no longer current, please correct me.

I'm not sure. I'll let you know what I find out.

Brett

Brett,

I asked some hunters and this is what I was told:

Bukharan Markhor are on the protected list in Tajikistan

By special application, Presidential permits are sometimes given, process takes several months

Cost of hunt and permit will be above $50k

Tajikistan is becoming a member of CITES this year, they likely will not receive export permits anytime soon.If they do eventually receive export permits, it will probably be very small, perhaps one or two per year.

Thank you Kathi!!!

Brett

Brett,

I am planning on going for a MP hunt in Tajikistan possibly in 13, but most likely 14. I know they also have Afghan urial, but it is a tough hunt with a very low success rate from what I understand.

That would be pretty cool if I could also hunt Markhor. If I did it, I would send the horns to Canada and have replicas made.

Rich

The Bukharan Markhor (Capra Falconeri Hepteneri) is included in CITES Appendix I, and counts with the highest level of protection an animal can have.
It cannot be hunted legally, meither in Tadjikistan nor in Uzbekistan and there is no such a thing as a presidential permit nor anything like that, Tadjikistan being a member of CITES Convention.
Afghan Urial can be hunted legally in Tadjikistan, and the success rate we've had in the two years that we have been sending clients on that hunt has been 100%. In fact, it is a rather easy hunt, at least in the territories our outfitter operates.
montero


Alvaro Mazon
Camino Real Hunting Consultants SL
Spain

http://www.lhnet.org/markhor/


Under threat, states a few are hunted each year. I did not think Tajikistan was a part of CITES yet because don't they send their trophies to Moscow for export permits? I will check on Tajikistan being a CITES member.

http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/parties/alphabet.php


Link to countries who belong to CITES.

quote:

Originally posted by montero:
The Bukharan Markhor (Capra Falconeri Hepteneri) is included in CITES Appendix I, and counts with the highest level of protection an animal can have.
It cannot be hunted legally, meither in Tadjikistan nor in Uzbekistan and there is no such a thing as a presidential permit nor anything like that, Tadjikistan being a member of CITES Convention.
Afghan Urial can be hunted legally in Tadjikistan, and the success rate we've had in the two years that we have been sending clients on that hunt has been 100%. In fact, it is a rather easy hunt, at least in the territories our outfitter operates.
montero


Alvaro Mazon
Camino Real Hunting Consultants SL
Spain

Alvaro,

It is appendix 1. Tadjikistan is NOT a CITES country. Markhor are protected in Tadjikistan to my knowledge. Markhor may be hunted legally in Tadjikistan if the president grants permission via presidential permit. I have heard that from several sources now. Could I be mistaken........sure, but I'd say those sources are pretty reliable.

Brett

Aren't there other appendix 1 animals that are legally hunted??? Rhino? Aren't they appendix 1?

Brett

Yes that's completely inaccurate. Just because an animal is listed as CITES 1 doesn't mean you can't hunt it. Black rhino and all of the markhor species are appendix 1.

Brett

Brett,

You are absolutely right that because a species or ssp. is included in Appendix I (sorry, I still think it is I and not 1) does not mean that it may not be hunted.

But then, I believe that Bukharan Markhor is included in some other specific list for specially threatened species facing extinction, something like a "red book", that specifically prohibits any hunting.

With this said, I have been in Central Asia enough times (three times only this season, in October, December and in February) to understand that everything and anything there is negotiable.

Anybody will sign anything if you pay him 50k, in other words.

Last year, or could have been the year before, a well known Argentinian hunter shot a Sair Argali in Kazakhstan and published a report of his with all the bells and whistles in Ovis magazine. He thought the hunt to be legal, because he had been granted a special permit issued by the Local Authority, but the truth is that his hunt was totally illegal, as all Argali hunting was/is closed in Kazakhstan (something really stupid, as there is no better protection for any species that a well regulated hunting plan that reverts part of the revenues back to the last local administration, Pakistan being a very good example) and I wonder what would have happened to him if he had been a US citizen as I understand that your Government will prosecute you for felonies commited abroad, please correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding Tadjikistan being a CITES member I thought so, but I stand corrected if the link you provided is updated. I know that until three years ago it was not a member and, as Kathy very well says (Hola, Kathy!!) their CITES Export Permits -the ones we presented in Madrid´s CITES Office to obtain our CITES Import Permit- where being issued in Russia.
But when Marco Polo hunting in Tadjikistan reopened two years ago (it had been closed for two seasons) our CITES office rejected the first Russian CITES Permits that we presented them, saying that they would no longer accept permits issued by a third country, since CITES already had an Office in Dushanbe, and this is the route we have been following ever since.


Best regards,

Alvaro

Only if you tried to import the trophy could you possibly run a fowl with US fish and wildlife since no US laws were broken.

Brett

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacey_Act_of_1900

"The Lacey Act of 1900, or simply the Lacey Act (16 U.S.C. §§ 3371–3378) is a conservation law in the United States. Introduced into Congress by Representative John F. Lacey of Iowa, the act was signed into law by President William McKinley on May 25, 1900...

...The Lacey Act protects both plants and wildlife by creating civil and criminal penalties for a wide array of violations, and most notably prohibits trade in wildlife, fish, and plants that have been illegally taken, transported or sold. The law is still in effect, although it has been amended several times..."

In article 3372 of the Law, under Prohibited Acts" you can read "...for the illegal taking, acquiring, receiving, transporting, or possessing of fish or wildlife..."


It dos not say "and", it says "or", and I understand that under the Lacey Act you are elligible for civil/criminal penalties just by taking an animal illegaly, even if you do not import it into your country.

Not being a lawyer, and not being a US citizen either, I can't be of much help on this, except to recommend to everyone considering such a hunt to seek professional advise before anything, even before paying a penny to anybody.

Just look what the Act says on this too: "...it is deemed to be a purchase of fish or wildlife in violation of this chapter for a person to obtain for money or other consideration any guiding, outfitting, or other services; or a hunting or fishing license or permit;..."

source: http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/Lacey.pdf

Thank you and best regards,

Alvaro

My understanding is that the Lacey act is ONLY invoked if you cross state or federal lines after having committed a wildlife violation. So if I poach a deer in Ohio I can be arrested and tried even if I'm now in Indiana. Or if I illegally hunt in a National Park in Zimbabwe and I import the trophies to the US I would be subject due to the importation. The US would not enforce another country's game laws if importation was not involved. That's what I heard from USF&W when I specifically asked them about going over to hunt Bukharan Markhor.

Her: "So you aren't importing it?"
Me: "No."
Her: "So you aren't in the US?"
Me: "No."
Her: (With "your an idiot" tone in her voice...) "So you aren't in the US and you aren't trying to import it.......how could you possibly get in trouble with us?"
Me: "That's what I thought too. I just wanted to hear it from you."

Brett

Why ask if you're so sure?

This seems like a lot to do about nothing.

That's a good question Scott. I was asking more about the legalities in Tajikistan rather than the legalities in the US.I knew next to nothing about Tadjikistan at the time that I asked the initial question. Since then I've spoke with a few people who have given me some good information. I suppose I should have clarified what I was asking for.

Brett

Brett,

PM sent.

Hi Guys,
I arranged this Huge Bokharan Markhor for my client and friend last season, I got the special permission from the President of tajikistan Mr. Imamoli Rahmon, he visited Pakistan on an official visit, and my father who is the Minister for Education in Pakistan and a friend of the president of Pakistan requested Mr. Rahmon for this.
I Can arrange this whenever anyone wants to go.
For more details visit our website
www.indussafaris.com

Pir Danish,

CONGRATULATIONS, outstanding Markhor. Is that Alexander in the photo?

Hasn't he taken other Markhors in Pakistan?

Well done.

Thanks Kathi, That is Alex indeed, and yes he has hunted Kashmir Markhor and Astore Markhor in Pakistan as well.

http://www.huntingreport.com/h...Tajikistan%20Hunting


From The Hunting Report, click on link, then click on "free" hunting report to read about hunting Markhor in Tajikistan this past February.