I absolutely want an ibex, but which one. The Bezoar look stunning, but then again they all do. So what are some facts on the different ibex? What's the biggest? What's the most beautiful? Any good references to read (websites, books, people)? I'm planning on a lion in 4-5 years, but I'd like to go for an ibex in the mean time I just don't know where to start. I apologize for my generality, but I just started looking into it and I don't know that much about them. Thanks for any input.

Brett

Brett, indeed they are stunning animals and Turkey for Bezoar Goat is a very good starting point.

Ahmed, that would certainly scratch my itch!!!

Great photos of the same goat, I assume? Details please


Brett, I'm wanting one also and have the same questions. Thanks for posting and I look forward to hearing from more of the experts.

http://www.chinahunt.net/en/hunt%20in%20pakistan.html

I consider the Sindh Ibex of Pakistan as the most beautiful. I shot a Mid-Asian in Tajikistan last November. The report is here on AR in the Asian section.

Good luck on wherever you choose to hunt. I am sure you will have a great time.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...26108036/m/350102759

Link to Hunting Report on AR.

There is also a Bezoar Ibex hunt in New Mexico that you can apply for (similar to the NM oryx hunts).

I agree the Bezoar is one of the most striking. If you're trying to save money for a lion hunt, the Gobi and Altai ibex are on the more affordable side of ibex hunts. You can also collect both species in a single hunt as well as two types of gazelles. All ibex are beautiful trophies and each has a unique coat pattern and horn structure, look at the ibex from Spain for an example.


Given the current state of lion hunting, you might want to go shoot a lion ASAP if you can manage it and hunt ibex later.

My biggest issue is time. Getting away from my practice for long enough to hunt a lion is next to impossible for the next few years. So in the mean time I'd like to bag an ibex, but I'd prefer to do it in their home range. Which is the largest in body? Which is the largest in horn? Which is the best looking?

Brett

Brett, I too love hunting ibex and have been fortunate enough to take 13 different species. The largest bodied ibex is probably the mid-Asian but the Himalayan and Alpine not far behind. Regarding horn length, without looking in the record book, a monster Bezoar will be in the mid-50's, so will the mid-Asian ibex. Best looking ibex? Subjective. Best of luck with whatever you decide but be aware, they are addictive.

Thanks Mark. I could definitely see myself doing it more than once!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Mark A.:
The largest bodied ibex is probably the mid-Asian but the Himalayan and Alpine not far behind.

I have a feeling the largest bodied Ibex are the Caucasian Turs - but don't ask me whether this applies to all or just one of the subspecies?

Brett, do you always base your hunting decisions on superlatives: largest body, longest horns etc?? How about: what type of hunting do I enjoy, what kind of terrain and vegetation appeals to me, what experience am I looking for, are there physical limits involved such as absolute altitude I can hunt at, is it more important to me that I have a good hunt, or is bragging about my trophy upon return a measure of success, how important is killing an animal, can I have a good hunt without putting something on the ground, do I want to combine an ibex with other species etc etc etc??

For high altitude hunting, try Kirgistan and Caucasus. For lower altitude with a lot more vgetation (forest), try Kazakhstan, the Russian side of Altai or Turkey. For lower altitude with vegetation primarily grass or desert try Mongolia or Pakistan. But this is but one aspect that could be used to select a hunt.

Perhaps it would be best if you did some research on what the different species looked like, what hunting was offered and what interested you. If you don't fancy hitting the Internet or the library, I'm sure a hunting consultant with world wide offerings could provide some input.

- mike

Thanks Mike. I agree there is much more to a hunt than success, body size, or horn length!! Unfortunately I'm rather ignorant about ibex, the areas they are hunted, and the types of hunts you can expect in each area. Since that means I'm pretty much ignorant about everything I thought I'd start small and learn a little about the animals themselves. I would love to learn more and I love to read, but I'm not sure what websites or books are good sources of information. Can you recommend any? Looking back I could see how you might think I was looking for a SCI gold metal and all else be damned, but that's not the case. I just know very little about them, but I think they are stunningly beautiful!!!!!

Brett

PS. I'd be very disapointed to spent a bunch of money and time to go around the world and do nothing more than "collect" an ibex. I figured they are all mountain animals, so it would be a tough hunt period. Again probably my ignorance on the issue showing.

Brett,

I can't even pretend to be an ibex expert, there are such a multitude of species and locations to hunt them in, that I have not even begun to scratch the surface. Nor could I hope to tell you where to go or what to hunt, a totally individual choice after all. But I can tell you a bit about the few places I have hunted, and a few other bits and pieces I have picked up over the years. Hardly a comprehensive introduction to ibex hunting, but the best I can offer. Please forgive my spelling - in particular of Asian country names, which I largely attempt to spell phonetically, lacking better knowledge.

All ibex are of family Capra - e.g. Capra Ibex.

In Asia and surrounding areas, there are 2 major forms of ibex. One is the "Bezoar" type found in Turkey, Iran and the closely related Sind Ibex in Pakistan. Ahmed was so kind as to provide a picture of a magnificent Bezoar specimen:



All Bezoar type ibex have a "keel" (i.e the narrower part) on the front of the horn.

The other major type of ibex shares the sweeping horns of the Bezoar, but when you look at their horns, they don't exhibit a "keel". Rather their horns have a largely rectangular to quadratic cross section (with rounded edges), displaying prominent embossments (German: Schmuckwulst) on the front side of the horn.

Kathi has been kind enough to provide a picture of an ibex of this type:



In Asia you will find huntable populations of ibex of this type in a great arch stretching from the Himalayas of Pakistan, over Tadjikistan (where Kathi hunted her specimen), over Kirgistan to Kasakhstan, and into the Altai on both the Russian and the Mongolian side. Mongolia also has a population in the desert (Gobi, I believe). The Alpine ibex is very similar to this type as well, although somewhat smaller in horn and body than the larger Asian subspecies.

In addition to the two main types mentioned above, there are the tur ibex (in 3-4 subspecicies) found in Caucasus. Some of these (Central and Eastern Caucasus) have a different horn configuration all together, others (Western Caucasus) look like "regular" ibex with shorter horns.

Poor picture of an Eastern type tur:



On top of this, there are Spanish ibex, with subspecies and horn configuration pretty much separate from all others.

There are many other subspecies that I have not mentioned, but a lot of them will fall into (or close to) the major categories above - e.g. Crete and other Mediterranean areas have ibex (Kiri-Kiri) which are close to the Bezoar type. The ibex is the forefather of the domestic goat,
so even feral goats will have attributes normally associated with wild ibex.

Of the ibex in Central Asia, I have hunted in Kirgistan and the Russian side of the Altai. The ibex of Kirgistan are VERY close to the type on Kathi's picture (from neighbouring Tadjikistan). The colouring is pretty much uniform brown, and both countries have excellent populations. Kirgistan is probably the cheapest location to hunt ibex, if you are hoping for a truely large trophy. Earlier in the season, the hunt is at very high altitude (up to 12000 ft and above - OK, I know this is not so high to our friends in CO, but still...). The terrain is steep and rocky, and in many areas you will hardly see a tree the entire hunt. Hunting itself is mostly on horses - the most miserable creatures you can imagine, that will not only drag your sorry behind up the mountain, but also all of your gear (no pack horses here). At night the horses will mostly subsist on what windblown grass they can come by. Still, it is hard to imagine how sure footed these horses are, and how, time and again, they will make your hunt by allowing you to access high altitude in relative comfort. In Tadjikistan, in contrast, due to the often flatish areas where ibex (and Marco Polo) are hunted, hunting is often done by jeep.

In particular for the high altitude ibex hunting areas such as Kirgistan, you will always be faced with the impossible dilemma: early or late hunt. If you go early, you have to go high, and the ibex will be spread over large areas. Later in the season, snow will force the ibex to lower altitude, but you could well be seriously hampered by the snow. Ibex have better capes later in the season.

All ibex stink - eh, like goats - the bezoar can be downright fearsome. Many a mount of a bezoar taken in the rut has been banned from the living quarters by disenchanted wives. Ibex are more accessible in the rut, but they also stink more.

As you move further north from the Himalayas, into areas such as Kasakhstan and the Russian side of Altai, you will no longer be hunting at such high altitude. Maybe 6-8000 feet, or so. Additionally, these mountains are covered in beautiful forests and are a sight to behold in the fall. As you move North, the colour scheme of the ibex tends to change away from the uniform brown towards a more grey-ish brown type (not as grey as the Bezoar) with dark cape markings resembling those of the Bezoar. Next to Kirgistan, Kasakhstan is probably the other place to go if you are hoping for a monster ibex. World records are taken in either country, although it would probably be prudent to set your expectations a bit lower. In contrast to Kirgistan, though, Kasakhstan charges a trophy fee for the ibex depending on its size. So all in all, Kasakhstan is a more expensive venue. In the Russian Altai trophy fees are flat and not based on size, but the chances of a true monster are not as good as in Kasakhstan. The hunting is equally good in either country - typically on horseback, away from civilization for days on end. I doubt if there is a finer hunt in all of Asia - the North American West might come close with a horse back hunt... On top of that, both Kasakhstan and the Russian Altai offer superb options for combining ibex hunting with maral (Asian wapiti) and Siberian Roebuck. Wild boar, bear and wolves are targets of opportunity (assuming you have a tag in your pocket). Again, Kasakhstan probably has some of the World's best maral trophies, but due to size dependent trophy fees, they don't come cheaply.

I have never hunted the Mongolian side, but the Mongolian part of Altai has a lot less vegetation compared to the Russian side, and the desert areas obviously even less. Trophy size in general falls off into Mongolia, but the hunting is probably just as exiting. Mongolia may well be the cheapest option to go ibex hunting in the World.

Then there is the Caucasus - tur hunting... Caucasus is something altogether different. Of breathtaking beauty, steep as anything and you have to go high for tur (12000 ft is not unheard of). You will be lucky to find a pack animal in many parts of the Caucasus (Azerbeijan may be an exception?), so it is normally shank's mare all the way - up, up and up. One of the advantages of parts of the Caucaus, is that tur can be combined with hunting for (rutting, roaring) red stag - a hunt as magnificent as for the bugling maral. The largest of the Eastern type tur can be found in Azerbeijan, but you have to be aware that an awful lot of tur are hunted on drives there. This can be productive, but it does not make trophy selection any easier. Parts of Northern Caucasus are troubled as result of the war in Tchetnia (sp?), although areas such as Northen Ossetia should still offer safe hunting. Azerbeijan has also become more and more popular as a hunting destination.

Other hunters will have to tell you about Bezoar and Spanish ibex, I'm afraid I have little knowledge of these.

- mike

Thank you very much Mike!!! That was very helpful!! Can you recommend any good books on Asian hunting especially ibex?

Brett

Brett, there are a ton of "hero books" written by people who have hunted a bunch of different Asian species - US hunters, Spanish hunters, Japanese hunters, the brother of the Shah of Persia, you name it. Look on www.safaripress.com . These books can be very entertaining, but it is not always they are particularly educational.

I have a book at home (is it called "The Ibex of the World"??), but I have not been able to google it up. I'll look over the weekend, and if I find any additional information, I'll post it here.

While you are dreaming of ibex hunting, here are a couple of pictures of Alpine ibex. The Alpine ibex is not as large as the Asian species, but I think the pictures make up for that. First one taken by a friend of mine in the Swiss Canton of Vallis:



And secondly an ibex taken by the same hunter in his hunting area in Austria (I chose the picture with the family, nice to be able to share hunting with the people you love the most...):



- mike

The book I was thinking of was:

quote:

"Lords of the Pinnacles, Wild Goats of the World".
By: Raul Valdez,
limited to 1000 copies
Published by: Wild Sheep and Goat International, Box 244, Messilla, NM 88046
1985
(no IBSN visible)

It appears the book is still available, sadly at "collectible" prices :

http://www.amazon.com/Lords-pi...id=1253959999&sr=1-1

I also stumbled over this webpage, which has some interesting information:

http://tolweb.org/Capra/51066

- mike

That's a little more than I think I'm willing to pay for a book!!! Thanks for the website.

Brett

Brett I can hook you up for Ibex in Turkey. One of the top 20 economies in the world. Safe travel....none of the 3rd world B.S.

Regards.

Oz

Thank you. I'm currently leaning towards Mongolia for my first ibex hunt. I have a feeling there may be more!!! Bezoar or mid Asian will likely be my second/third run. We'll see how I like the first one.

Brett

I understand your passion very well, Brett! I've become an ibex nut myself.. So far Siberian and Sierra-Nevada Ibex is in the salt, but I'll try for more. Bezoar og tur is hopefully next for me..

I think Mongolia would be a great place to start off. But beware. It won't be the last!

my firts capra hunt was in mongolia, then rocky moutain, then a alpine ibex.



By mexicanhunter, shot with HP ScanJet 4600 at 2008-04-09


By mexicanhunter, shot with HP ScanJet 4600 at 2008-06-21


By mexicanhunter, shot with HP oj6100 at 2008-07-03

BUT THE MOST DEMANDING HUNT WAS A FREE RANGIN AOUDAD HUNT IN MEXICO


By mexicanhunter at 2008-07-07


By mexicanhunter at 2008-07-07

BEST REGARDS