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Dan Duncan in hot water?
19 July 2007, 19:59
<Hunter Formerly Known As Texas Hunter>Dan Duncan in hot water?
X
19 July 2007, 20:04
DC RoxbyLegal or not his actions were despicable. Why in the hell would he do such a thing?
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I don't shoot elk at 600 yards for the same reasons I don't shoot ducks on the water, or turkeys from their roosts. If this confuses you then you're not welcome in my hunting camp.
19 July 2007, 20:09
scruffyI have no idea of why the man chose to shoot out of a helicopter - nor do I have any idea of how a different country can charge him for that ???
Is Canada going to charge me someday with (perhaps) mistakenly whacking a woodpecker in South America ???
19 July 2007, 20:19
nkonkaHow he shot those critters is deplorable IMHO and if any of his trophies listed in the almighty bible of SCI were taken the same way they should be expunged.
However, charging him with a crime here in the US, when no complaint was raised by Russia, is a scary thing. It would be interesting to find where or from whom the complaint came from.
Just hope my govt doesn't find out about the time at Madame Claude's...
19 July 2007, 20:26
analog_peninsulaThis smells. It's absolutely unsporting, but why the charges? Something stinks very badly here ...
analog_peninsula
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19 July 2007, 20:30
L. David KeithRegardless of the ethics involved, why the hell would the US stick their nose in something it doesn't belong? Was there CITES permits involved? Sounds to me like someone here is just looking to draw attention to themselves...elections? Just another way to put more nails in the hunting community coffin. scruffy, don't be surprised if the Mounties come knocking on your door.
.Personally, in the realm of fair chase, the man's choice of hunting method is questionable, but I wasn't there; don't know the circumstances; but he hasn't denied it and seems to be honest at least. Maybe it's just another angle to piss off the Russian's so they close all hunting to Americans. Our tax dollars at work...again. LDK
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19 July 2007, 20:40
namibiahunterSo why isn't the U.S. indicting the Russian guide?
BTW, I hope they don't indict me for shooting from a helicopter back in 1964-64 in Vietnam.
.
19 July 2007, 21:10
GeorgeSIf it was illegal to shoot game from a helicopter at the time and place he did so, he can be charged under the Lacey Act, his knowledge of the game laws notwithstanding.
Usually, only a game department official (who is duly authorized to do so) can provide legal cover for illegal acts (I think it is called 'acting under competent authority'). If that was the case, I hope Mr. Duncan got some documentation to that effect.
George
19 July 2007, 21:25
smarterthanuThe Lacey act is the largest example of abuse of power still on the books today. You can commit a misdemeanor in a foriegn country and be convicted of a fellony here. USFWS uses this like a giant hammer to crush any one who stands up against them during an investigation. USFWS does not care about rights, due process, and most importantly you. They will screw you and leave you flat. I gaurantee Dan Duncan is in hotter water than a child mollestor, or crack dealer right now. USFWS is more zealous than the FBI going after the mafia. What is crazier is the people close to him or work for him. You don't hear about it because they are small potatoes, but I gaurantee they are getting screwed like tied goats on this deal. The outfitter, his private pilot that flew him there, the person who picked up his trophies at the airport, the secretary that put the check in the mail for the hunt will all get charged with fellonies if they don't roll over on Dan Duncan. You can't imagine the shit storm coming until you've been in it.
19 July 2007, 21:54
onefunzr2It seems helio hunting is more widespread than I thought. My hunting partner and I heard a tale from a prospective outfitter here in PA bragging about shooting game at the top of a New Zealand mountain, with an m-16 out the door of a copter. Needless to say, we didn't choose him.
I can't see anything sporting in what Dan Duncan did in Russia. However, his wealth should tie things up in red tape until he is dead, when the whole point will be moot.
19 July 2007, 22:37
markhori think if the man is old and week thats why he must have done it,its the job of the ph when he did not stop him that means that was legal there,so i think if the local government is not bothered why somebody else...though i agree thats not hunting ethics...kind regards
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20 July 2007, 20:50
Outdoor WriterAlso see the following:
Houston tycoon finds himself in the crosshairs
Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer"
23 July 2007, 22:14
cjworldtrekThis whole thing goes a bit deeper than what you have read...not only was Mr. Duncan in this mess, but also Mike Simpson (past president of SCI), his son Travis, Hubbert Thummler from Mexico and Tom Riley (former director of USFWS).
Should be interesting to see how this all shakes out...
Stay tuned....
27 July 2007, 00:39
yukon deltaThe whole thing is a bit strange. If you're not legit hunting with those kind of friends then something is really wrong anyway.
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31 July 2007, 10:26
MadgoatIf you're stupid enough to hunt in another state or country and not read through the game laws...you're the fucking idiot.
MG
01 August 2007, 01:18
cropdusterMadgoat,
nice to know you can read & write Russian
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01 August 2007, 04:53
MadgoatYou're right Cropduster, making any effort to do things the legal way (even if it means maybe spending a few bucks for an interpreter to read it to you) is total bullshit.
MG
01 August 2007, 05:57
N. GarrettWith the single exception of Canada, all of us rely on our guides and/or outfitters to tell us what the rules are when hunting out of the country.
Many times provincial rules conflict (directly!!!) with national rules for hunting.
Courts in other countries bow to the will of the most powerful party.
Duncan is in trouble because the US Fish and Wildlife wants something...something that this prosecution will abet. Not because he broke the law.
When they came after me they had no interest in my case per se. They wanted me to tumble the outfitter who they had been after for sometime.
I was lucky because I never spoke to USFW without my lawyer present, and usually with him answering for me. I also never stipulated that I was hunting.
I came away from the experience with a very powerful respect for what government prosecutors can do.
Even if I ever want to help the government in an investigation or prosecution, I will only speak to them through a lawyer, and then only under the condition of blanket immunity from prosecution (which they are able to grant).
Anyone who thinks this is about game laws and hunting is kidding themselves.
Garrett
01 August 2007, 06:35
jdollarif it isn't about illegal hunting/trophy importation, what else could it posibly be about?
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01 August 2007, 07:35
Madgoatquote:
When they came after me they had no interest in my case per se. They wanted me to tumble the outfitter who they had been after for sometime.
So tell us Garrett, why did they come after you? You must have done something illegal? How else could the federal prosecutor offer you a deal??
MG
01 August 2007, 20:52
N. GarrettI like your logic Madgoat...the Government would only come after a guilty party...they never have a secondary agenda.
You should work for them Madgoat.
They are just your cup of tea.
Garrett
I'm sure they way individuals like Duncan, Simpson, and Riley have achieved their status has been by scrupulously reading, understanding, and obeying all "the" rules all the time.
And... the government is always interested in doing what's right (shhyaa!?!)
02 August 2007, 10:09
Madgoatquote:
I like your logic Madgoat...the Government would only come after a guilty party...they never have a secondary agenda.
Well, it looks like in your case, after they were done "talking" with about your illegal activity, they probably offered you some sort of deal to worm out the bigger fish. That is the impression I'm getting. Then you say stuff like this:
quote:
When they came after me they had no interest in my case per se.
And what case may that be? Just came and talked with you for the fun of it? I suppose you hand your lawyer there with you just for kicks?
You're probably just as bad as this Dan Duncan guy. Maybe you should start following the rules?
MG
02 August 2007, 17:17
N. GarrettMadgoat,
I feel pretty scroupulous about my following the law and ethics.
You might learn a thing or two about courtesy and accusing others.
You don't strike me as someone who knows much about either the law or ethics.
Garrett
02 August 2007, 19:30
MadgoatI'm not accusing anyone Garrett, you yourself said they (USFWS) "didn't have that much interest in your case", which would lead most individuals to believe that you must have done something wrong in order for them to contact you in the first place.
Maybe you should have your lawyer present before your next post.
MG
05 August 2007, 04:19
DC Roxby""We admitted from the word 'go' that I shot them from the helicopter," he said. "The whole question is: Did I know it was illegal? I did not."
Duncan said the moose was similar to a moose one would find in Alaska but a bit larger, while the sheep is similar to a Dall Sheep found in Alaska. He said the helicopter was about 10 feet off the ground and 75 to 100 yards away when he hit the moose using a .300 Winchester Magnum rifle."
All that matters to me is that Duncan shot a moose and sheep out of a helicopter. Could they not be bothered to land the damn chopper first at least? I don't care if it was legal in Russia or not. Any real sportsmen should be cringing at the thought of doing something so completely unethical, and disgusted by Mr. Duncan's actions. He is a disgrace to the hunting community.
Also, are we really to believe that Duncan never thought to himself "Hey, maybe I should ask if this is legal before I shoot a moose out of this hovering helicopter"? Give me a damn break.
______________________
I don't shoot elk at 600 yards for the same reasons I don't shoot ducks on the water, or turkeys from their roosts. If this confuses you then you're not welcome in my hunting camp.
08 August 2007, 05:38
308Sakoquote:
Originally posted by N. Garrett:
With the single exception of Canada, all of us rely on our guides and/or outfitters to tell us what the rules are when hunting out of the country.
Many times provincial rules conflict (directly!!!) with national rules for hunting.
Courts in other countries bow to the will of the most powerful party.
Duncan is in trouble because the US Fish and Wildlife wants something...something that this prosecution will abet. Not because he broke the law.
When they came after me they had no interest in my case per se. They wanted me to tumble the outfitter who they had been after for sometime.
I was lucky because I never spoke to USFW without my lawyer present, and usually with him answering for me. I also never stipulated that I was hunting.
I came away from the experience with a very powerful respect for what government prosecutors can do.
Even if I ever want to help the government in an investigation or prosecution, I will only speak to them through a lawyer, and then only under the condition of blanket immunity from prosecution (which they are able to grant).
Anyone who thinks this is about game laws and hunting is kidding themselves.
Garrett
Amen
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13 September 2007, 22:15
cjworldtrekHere is the latest on the Duncan (Kern) story just out today.
Amazing that these guys are top award winners...I guess it's all about the money and who can kill the most without regard for ethics or laws. And on top of it all they are/were in the TOP ranks of SCI....makes me want to puke.
Clark
14 September 2007, 07:05
GatogordoWell, so much for the hot water, Duncan is home free as far as I can tell. It surely stains his hunting career as far as I'm concerned, but then, I doubt he gives a damn about my opinion.
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