Ladies and Gentlemen:

In your experience, who makes the best waterfowl non-toxic 12 gauge shotgun shell ammunition?

Best pattern?

Best knockdown?

Easiest on barrels?

I am looking at Kent, Hevi-shot and Bismaxx.

I just purchased a Japanese made, steel rated A-5 barrel for pass shooting, but may want to use a non-steel rated older shotgun for close in shooting over decoys.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Best all around, without doubt hevi-shot or it's newer clone.

Best pattern: That depends on individual guns but hevi-shot seems to be the winner of most comparisons.

Best knockdown: Without doubt, hevi-shot.

Easiest on barrels: probably bismuth, not counting lead, of course.

Bismuth is a good shotshell if you're concerned with the effects of steel or other hard shot loads.

PS: When in doubt, choose the next bigger shot size.

Well, this can be a pretty short thread. Gatorgordo pretty much nailed it. I've shot waterfowl for 40+ years, and I've never seen anything that compares to Hevishot. I think most experienced waterfowlers who've used Hevishot will tell you it is the best stuff you can get, though costly.

I didn't shoot much of it this season, I mostly used Kent FastSteel, which I think is probably the best pure steel load, but there was no question in my mind that it was inferior to Hevishot.

By the way, this final comment has nothing to do with waterfowl, but I'd sure like to see how Hevishot's "Dead Coyote" load would work in Africa on the smaller antelopes and predators. Dead Coyote is Hevishot alloy in "T" shot size. I've seen coyotes killed cleanly with this stuff at beyond 70 yards. It patterns well and hits very hard.

Gentlemen:

Thank you for your continued advice.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Haven't tried Hevi-shot or Black Cloud....with the way my crew and I were shooting at the end of the season.....it would bankrupt us.

Norton:

My duck/goose hunting has been somewhat interrupted by deer hunting the last few years. It's much easier than duck hunting.

Most waterfowlers that shoot a lot probably do as I do, we use steel for the "everyday" hunts that we are used to close to home, and carry or save the hevi-shot type loads for when we're on a special hunt or when it is one of those bluebird days and the birds are just kind of "sliding" off the edge of the spreads (another great reason for double barrels, the ability to switch loads quickly and easily). I don't want to start a pissing battle about how far someone can or should shoot, but Hevi-shot will carry AND DELIVER the mail a loooooong ways if you can put it on them. Most shooters can't, it takes a lot of practice to do it well. I got most of that practice shooting geese around Gueydan La years ago, warming up on blackbirds for thousands of shots. I imagine with the new rules that snows are perfect for long range shooting late in the season. All that said, I believe in letting the birds come, if they're coming, but sometimes they don't cooperate. Also, of course, one has to be especially considerate if there are any other hunters in the area where shooting might scare birds working their spread off.

You'll find that many experienced waterfowlers become somewhat like a bowhunter. You have to know when they're close enough to shoot, and let them go when they're not. You'll eventually learn, as Gato has, that some days you'll come in with pleny of birds, and some days only a few or none. You'll always come in with good memories of a day on the marsh. There's a lot more to duck hunting than just killing ducks.

Sorry, no short cut for this. Get some steel loads and head to the range for some patterning with your gun and chokes. Let the paper tell you which works best in your equipment and at the ranges you do your hunting/shooting. Compare your patterning results against Roster's CONSEP lethality table and when you have a load/choke that can maintain the minimums you are ready to go.

Good luck.

Well, I'm not opposed to patterning, but since most of the modern loads shoot better than almost all of the shooters, I'd recommend heading to the range and shooting a few thousand skeet birds to start and sporting clays later. That will be a helluva lot more help than a good pattern. I'm certain that I can take the worst patterning load (within reason, limiting this to commercially available shells) in my shotgun and kill more ducks than someone who is a relatively inexperienced shooter standing next to me with the best patterning loads in his shotgun, ESPECIALLY if we are hunting early morning teal buzzing by.

In my experience patterning steel it runs out of "ummph" a lot sooner than it runs out of pattern. The problem is, of course, if you want the "ummph" with steel, you've got to use bigger shot and lose the pattern density. You can use all the logic/rationalization you want but for serious shooting Steel Sucks IMO and there is no one that I have met who uses it who knows what they are talking about who won't admit that they lose more cripples using it.

BTW, this is off topic, but all this duck hunting talk reminded me of a hunt about 20 years ago in Saskatchewan. There were 5 of us pitted into a field using drilled holes for geese. We killed a few earlier and, my partner, who only tolerated my love for duck/goose hunting, thinking we were wasting time when we could be out chasing huns, says, about 9 o'clock or a couple of hours after legal, "Well, flights over, let's go shoot some huns." I'd seen a few later flying geese and said, "No, I wanna stay awhile." So they waved the guide in and he and two of the other hunters took off, leaving me and a very nice guy, a surgeon from Fl, not an experienced goose hunter, in our pits. I remember that he was shooting a new looking A5 12, not sure if mag or not. We talked and looked, I was shooting an Ithaca 10 ga, and think we killed one more goose. After an hour or so, I noticed these "dust" clouds moving around and around a few miles away. After watching them for a while I finally figured out they were thousands and thousands of mallards rolling from one field to another. I had goose calls along, but somehow had left my duck calls in the truck. I watched these ducks and noticed they were getting a little closer. I asked Doc if could call, he said he carried calls but couldn't call, I said, "Throw them over here." and started tooting away. I'm not a very good caller but these ducks up there are virgins. In a little while I had one of the smaller bunches of a few hundred circling right over us. I said, "Tak'em" and let him shoot. Bang, Bang, Band, one cripple, which I managed to scratch down after he finished. Same thing happened a few minutes later. These ducks were probably under 25 yards right over us when I'd call the shot. Doc kept missing mostly and said they were too far. I kept calling and in a little while a BIG bunch started working. I called, and chuckled and shut up, etc and we had a few thousand ducks cupped right on top of us. A mallard hen landed about 3 feet from his hole. I said, "Is that close enough, Doc." Great day and a helluva nice guy to hunt with.

Be careful about using Hevi Shot if your not reloading it.
The three most popular shells Enviromental now loads are Hevi Steel, Hevi Duck, and Hevi Goose.
Hevi Goose is the original Hevi-Shot. Hevi-Steel is pretty much what you might think it is, a heavier compound then straight steel shot, but still mainly steel.
But they really pulled a fast one with Hevi-Duck, hoping no one would notice. In the fine print on the box they call it "heavier than steel". They changed the mixture from the original Hevi-Shot. This wouldn't have been bad, Hevi-Duck is still a good load, except that it is about the same density of Hevi-Steel at four times the price of Hevi-Steel.
If you want a good load for that special hunt use Remington HD. It's what they say it is, and not some scam somebody's trying to pull.
If you go on some of the Duck Hunting forums you'll find out what a scam Enviromental pulled last year.

I would agree with much of what you say Gato. And as I often reply, "if you can't put the pattern on the front end of the duck little else matters", but he was asking about patterning so I was just pointing out that the only way for him to know which one patterns best from his gun/choke is to do the pattern work.

1) Measure your equipment and loads,
2) Make sure they is capable of doing the deed,
3) Measure your shooting skill, and
4) Practice by shooting all the clay targets you can.

Good luck.

Oops almost forgot.

5) Work on your hunting skills so you can get birds close,
6) The closer they are the less all of this stuff matters, and
7) Close birds are dead birds!!!

I have shot it all at one time or another...

I will speak to my expeiance. I am not a guide but I've seen between 500 & 700 ducks killed each year for the last 8 years or so. I personally kill about 200 to 250 a year..

If I was to shoot steel...
Winchester supreme or federal blackcloud. I shot #4 Blackcloud all this year and only had problems with Northern Mallards (we were in northern Utah at the time)at 35 plus yards. South Texas Pintails, Greys, Wigeon, & Teal were dead meat up to 45 yards. OF course that is on the high side. If you let the ducks decoy to about 30 yards or under #4 2 3/4" or 3" kent faststeel will work every time.

Hevi-Shot
Ill shoot the #6 3" Mags and they are dynamite. I have shot some ducks on the water at 60 yards (just to test the effectiveness) with this load and it is unreal. #4's give you even more punch at range. I love #2's for geese. I wouldn't choke past IM with any hevi-shot.

Kent Tungsten Matrix
THE BEST HD SHOT. Its the cat meow. IMHO this stuff makes hevi-shot looks bad. It's softer so it patterns better out of tighter chokes. #5 shot will kill any duck out there. #1's are unbelievable for geese and cranes.

Personally I end up shooting #3 or #4 winchester supremes or blackcloud in nearly duck hunting all situations.