I've used the Model 12 in 16 ga, 20 ga and in 12 ga have owned two, a Y-Series trap model (you don't see them around much and probably with good reason) and a full choke heavy 3" duck gun. I've never owned an 870 but have borrowed a friend's extensively for duck hunting. I also used to own a Model 37 (Supreme Skeet grade...don't know why I ever ordered it like that...probably just for the looks). I've never tried the BPS and can't speak to it. I tried a Mossberg one time only...the first time I ever fired a 3.5" and promptly handed it right back. I had no problem with the gun itself; the recoil though was another matter.

I think the 870 was the fastest operating and the Model 12 second fastest. On paper the 37 probably should have been because of the short throw...it also has that double sided operating mechanism.

On days when I'm shooting well I don't see a difference in "terminal results" between pump and auto. On days when I'm a little off I really believe the manual action in using a pump makes me slightly more focused before the next shot, so possibly fewer shells get wasted.

How do you rate them?

I have several (Remington 870, Browning, Winchester 1300, Benelli Nova and lowly Mossberg 500), but as I waterfowl hunt the salt at least 50% of the time, usually grab my synthetic stocked Nova with the synthetic coating on the barrel. Why? I shoot it well, first off, but also as it's been reasonably reliable, it doesn't rust nearly as easily as my blued guns and it's inexpensive enough that I don't care at all if it gets abused--and it does--in spades, to the tune of about 100 days a year in the field. I have others I have used, but now all it takes is to be in an salty air environment for them to start turning orange. I also like the feature that allows me to push a button and shuck out the round in the chamber without grabbing a round from the magazine. Think, hunting teal with #4s and then here's a goose coming in to say hello. Whip out a BB and thump him. As far as speed, I'd have to say the Winchester has the slickest/fastest action, and while speed is something of a factor, is not that big of a deal to me. I can get off 3 shots inside about a second with any of them.

It doesn't exist

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
It doesn't exist

What, the goose I just killed after you peppered it with your #4s and was heading out? Agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
It doesn't exist

What, the goose I just killed after you peppered it with your #4s and was heading out? Agree.

Uhhhh....the line up this year is as follows:
1 case Fiocchi 3.5" BB
1 case Hevi-metal 3" #3
1 case Kent Fasteel 3.5" #2

There will be no cripples....

One pump I never owned was the Win. Model 97. When I started hunting it was still widely used, especially by those with a fondness for the traditional. I really think it's sad to see fine old guns like that fade out of style.

In pumps the Win Model 12 was my first waterfowling piece and I used one for many years. There was just something about it that kinda set it and you as a hunter apart. There were some others regarded like that...the Parker, the Fox (both the Ansley H. and the Sterlingworth) and the Browning Superposed. It was somewhat the case of "let's see what he's using...a Model 12...well, we might have known".

Anyway, I eventually joined the crowds and got an autoloader. The Rem. 1100 was what everyone else had. I bought a 3" magnum model and mine was an unusual one that reliably handled 2 3/4" also. Most didn't. The final up-grade was the Premier 11-87. That's what has done most of the real damage. You will not find a finer gun (or finer folks to deal with on repairs than Remington).

Being a full choke gun, the Model 12 won't do steel and is now retired from waterfowling, but it still has a home in the dove fields and on the trap line, a sport in which it did and still does hold a special place of honor.

Shack:

When I was about 16 (I'm 79) a neighbor (and good family friend) gave me a somewhat neglected Win.97 in 12 ga.) I just don't remember what the choke was or even whether it was 28 or 30 inch barrel length. With the help of a local (very good) gunsmith, it was cleaned up and I took it afield to use on ruffed grouse (never having read any of the books on what to use on ruffed grouse) To make a long story short, I killed ruffed grouse at a rate of maybe 15 birds for every box of shells with that 97 over 2 seasons. I owned a lot of shotguns since then -some very expensive and even custom fitted - none ever killed grouse like that straight grip, hammer pump did. I traded it in for an Ithaca 37 Featherlite - and dumped that shotgun less than halfway through a season ( Lightness threw off my timing -and worse, I couldn't stand that bottom ejection which dumped a shell on my thigh because I always threw a leg forward after a bird went up. It was distracting even if it had nothing to do with the shot. I just didn't like the empty hull hitting on me and remembered it in the back of my mind for the next shot,I suppose)My father, being a sensible man, asked me why I wanted to get rid of a shotgun that killed ruffed grouse so well. I explained to him that it was an "old fashioned" kind of shotgun and I wanted a "modern" shotgun. (I read once that Mark Twain said that when he was 20 he thought his father was the stupidest man alive - when he was 30-he marvelled at how much the old man had learned in the last 10 years!)

quote:

Originally posted by Gerrypeters375:
Shack:

(I read once that Mark Twain said that when he was 20 he thought his father was the stupidest man alive - when he was 30-he marvelled at how much the old man had learned in the last 10 years!)

Hilarious, and so, so true...

These days I own both a 12 and 20 gauge BPS Upland Special. They are rugged, dependable, and I shoot them better than the Remington's I have owned.

No?

Dads 870 - about 55 yrs old and still kickin

Nothing like a Remington 31! I've got one in 12, 16, and 20 and will continue to buy more when I find them priced right. For me the controls are right where they need to be, and the stock through the grip is thinner then current shotguns on the market and that smaller grip just feels perfect to me. Plus that corncob front in sits down low in the hand like a fine english game gun. Please no one go out and buy any...leave them all to me!