Ladies and Gentlemen:

I have no real experience in waterfowl hunting, but will remedy that this fall.

I have a few questions when using a 12 gauge shotgun:

1. Does a 3" or 3.5" 12 gauge magnum shell give you a real advantage over a 2 3/4" 12 gauge magnum shell for pass shooting at geese and/or ducks?

2. Is a 2 3/4" 12 gauge magnum shell more than adequate for ducks landing and/or close in over decoys?

3. What limitations do you place on the use of steel shot versus Hevi shot, Bismuth and other higher specific gravity types of shot?

4. Is steel shot okay for most waterfowl shooting?

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Range.

4. Yes as long as you are willing to limit your shots and lose some higher percentage of cripples.

Dear Gatogordo:

Thank you for your advice.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Agree with the cat. I shoot an SBEII using 3.5" steel(Kent 1625fps or Fiocchi)......backup gun is a Stoeger 2000 and I shoot 3" steel......mostly #2 or 3.

Decoying is what it's all about....but you'll discover that after your second season. I'm amazed at how consistent the stages are that a waterfowler goes thru. My first 2 seasons I did anything and everything to kill ducks and geese....and risked my life to retrieve them.

I remember asking about and defending pass shooting when I first started 4 years ago but I've changed(and learned)quite a bit since then. Although I've hunted for the last 25 years or so, waterfowl instantly became my passion.

Scouting, location, set-up, and calling are what matter most.......so unless you're hunting divers and sea ducks primarily, don't over think the shell deal. Remember, 2 3/4 #4 will kill the biggest Canada if you hit him where you're supposed to. Being a good shot means a bit too LOL.

Good luck......you'll come to the realization that your life will never be the same after next season.

While a 3" gun will give you a pass shooting advantage, a 2 3/4" gun will work fine out to farther than most hunters can shoot well. Pass shooting isn't my cup of tea, I'm much more into hunting my birds over decoys. For the last 25 or so years, I've done 95% of my duck and goose hunting with an old Beretta A302 with a 26" improved cylinder barrel. That gun has shot a few thousand ducks and geese, mostly shooting 4's. I think Hevishot is the best stuff you can get, but this year used Kent FastSteel and was very impressed with it. For steel, I think it's the best stuff out there, and we didn't lose many ducks with it, compared to other types of steel loads.

You can shoot a bit farther with a 3" gun, but a 2 3/4" gun will work fine for 95% of all waterfowling, and will kick you a heck of a lot less, and cost much less to shoot. I won't even go into the 3 1/2" gun, never owned one and see no need for it, especially for shooting decoying birds.

Thank you all for your advice.

I have a follow up question. How are you retrieving your birds from the water?

Our Labrador retriever died last year at age 11, and we don't have another dog as yet.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

If you can't safely retrieve a bird don't shoot it. That being said, I either have my 14' jon boat or a 10' canoe with me on the river or in the salt marshes.

The poorest man's way of retrieving is a fishing rod/reel and a floating crankbait with as many treble hooks as you can fit on it......cheesy but it works.

Dear Norton:

Of course I could pull on my old 6mm U. S. Divers wetsuit, and float out to get them.

I like your treble hook idea. My old Browning rod would be just the thing.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I'm way past the point where I have to kill a duck or a goose, but I still like to watch them come in and fall. That said, I can't imagine having much fun waterfowl hunting anymore without my or someone's lab/retriever in or around the blind or where ever you are hunting.

I remember one time a buddy of mine and I went hunting in N. Louisana in some "secret" hole he had found out about on damn cold day for La. I took my lab Blackjack, the best dog I ever owned, he deserved a better owner, and we waded in about half a mile, Jack mostly swimming, to this timbered secret "hole". Shot a few ducks, but the memory is of poor old Jack tettering on a log sheeting over with ice while anxiously awaiting another duck to fall so he could jump in and get it. If I had known there wasn't anywhere for him to stand except on a log, then I wouldn't have taken him obviously, but it is a fond memory. Point is, I remember the dog, and the friend, but don't recall how many ducks we shot. Actually the friend was an artist and painted the scene, I've got it somewhere, I'll have to photograph it if I can find it. I hadn't even thought of that until I wrote this, don't know where the painting is. Point of this ramble is.......

GET A DOG!

PS: There are some dogs that are not Labradors that claim to be retrievers, but they are only pretenders to the throne.

I have to agree again with Gatogordo - GET A LAB! For the first Fifteen years or so that I duck hunted, we never used dogs. Hunting in rice fields, I was the dog, and hunting in deeper water, I just took the boat out after the birds. My father just never had a lab, only German Shorthairs for pheasant hunting.

After my dad died, I bought a Black Lab, Zach, and he was my hunting partner for an incredible 17 years. Now, my current lab, Cody, is 12 and I'll soon need to get another lab, which will be this summer after we return from South Africa. Between Zach and Cody, I've hunted the last 28 years with labs and can't imagine duck hunting without a dog. In fact, we sometimes take two labs out with us these days.

And, I'll say that a LABRADOR RETRIEVER is superior to any other pretender, including chesapeakes and swamp collies (aka golden retrievers). Gat a lab!

Gentlemen:

Unfortunately, our Lab mix (part pit bull or rotweiler, we don't know), Josie died last May at age 11 of complications from Lyme disease and probably the wrong antibiotic administered years ago.

My wife is bugging me to get another puppy, and it will be another Labrador retriever. I'll have to learn how to teach him or her to go get the ducks.

Actually, Josie would retrieve some stuff, but I didn't use her for hunting.

She was a real trip, definitely an alpha dog, and we both miss her.

Yup, we'll probably have another Lab by next year. Unfortunately, we are living in a townhouse, and don't have enough room to raise a dog at the moment.

Thanks for all of your combined advice.

Like you, I am a hunter, not a shooter, but I do like to eat 'em!

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

I'll give you my two cents.

The 3" and 3 1/2" shells with will allow you to get more of the larger goose pellets in the load to maintain pattern density, but for ducks a 2 3/4" load will provide plenty of pattern density with its smaller duck shot sizes if they are choked properly for the distance you are shooting.

Just about any duck that flies can be killed effectively with 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz steel loads. For small teal like ducks or any close decoying ducks #4 steel works great, for mallard only shooting #2 steel is good and for anything in between #3 steel is a good all-round choice. For geese, a 3" 1 1/4 oz load of steel BBs over decoys and BBBs for longer shooting is good.

Another point, don't get caught up in all the high-velocity hype like "speed kills" stuff. As long as these loads are around 1,400 fps they will kill waterfowl farther than most hunter can even hit a duck!

I just don't think you need 3 1/2" loads to effectively kill waterfowl and as some have said heavy loads just add cost and recoil. If you don't think recoil causes problems with your shooting go shoot a round or two of skeet with some 3 or 3 1/2" shells and report back!

Of course, you will need to pattern your gun/load/choke to make sure they are effective at the distance you want to shoot your birds. Get a copy of Tom Roster's CONSEP lethality table for more info on what it takes to effectively kill waterfowl.

The heavier tungsten-based shots are good stuff but pretty expensive and frankly you just don't need then if you are shooting your birds at reasonable ranges. They allow you to shoot smaller pellet sizes than steel and still maintain adequate pellet energy and that usually increases your pattern density. But, extra firepower is no substitute for getting the birds inside a reasonable range and good shooting!

Yes, steel shot is more than adequate for shooting waterfowl if you use the appropriate load and pellet size and choke it properly for the distance you are shooting your birds. Remember, if you can't put the pattern on the front end of the duck then little else matters.

Good luck.

Better yet, get a hunting buddy that has a good dog! Yes, that's the only reason my buddies allow me to go with them!!!

Dear Joe Hunter:

Thank you for your input.

I'm going the distance. I just picked up a 1971 Browning A5 Light 12 2 3/4" to compliment the Magnum A5 I bought earlier this week.

I already got a Japanese full choke barrel for the Magnum and am looking for a Japanese 26" 2 3/4" chamber IC or invector A5 barrel for the Light 12.

I will try out the full choke with Hevi-steel, which the Hevi-shot people told me will work similar to lead and not like steel. If I think the pattern is blown or too tight, I'll have the choke bored out a bit. Got a gunsmith locally, who appears to know what he is doing in boring a choke out.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Sounds good. I would guess that the full will be too tight for good shooting/hitting inside of 40 yards but the paper will tell the story. Your best bet would be to find an invector barrel (26" would be OK) and that way you can wear yourself out like the rest of us trying different chokes with different loads.

quote:

I will try out the full choke with Hevi-steel, which the Hevi-shot people told me will work similar to lead and not like steel. If I think the pattern is blown or too tight, I'll have the choke bored out a bit. Got a gunsmith locally, who appears to know what he is doing in boring a choke out.

I'm not sure what you mean, "work like lead", but hevi-shot is harder than steel IIRC. Instead of getting your choke bored out, if it doesn't suit you, then you should get a set of tubes installed. You didn't ask, but IMO a 32 inch barrel on an A5 is too long, but to each his own. The extreme barrel lengths came from the blackpowder days when people thought, right or wrong, that they got more velocity out of longer barrels. That is no longer true or a concern. The other "use" for a longer barrel, besides adding weight (which reduces recoil) is to smooth out and maintain your swing. This does help some people, but that is mostly those who don't shoot much. I do most of my hunting with an OU with 27 inch barrels which are plenty long enough IMO. I use a Benelli Nova (tubed) as a truck gun that has 24 inch barrels (actually I got a deal on it because of the shorter barrel length, turns out that is a good length) and I shoot it about as well as any gun I've tried. Probably if I added the receiver length in there, it would have a "sighting" radius as long or longer than my 101 OU. Not that this is all that hard on jumping ducks off of a pothole or cattle pond in my area, but I've killed many triples with the Nova. Of course, I've killed some singles with triple shots too.

Gentlemen:

I just scored a "new in original grease" 28" invector Auto 5 3" magnum vent rib barrel with all three original choke tubes.

The guy has one more NOS, same dimensions, here in Pennsylvania. PM me if you want details. He wants to unload it.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Sounds like you hit the jackpot! And, I think that's the best barrel length for waterfowling.

Time to go to the pattern board and shooting range for some clay target fun and patterning (not that patterning isn't fun).

Remember, those invector (I guess they aren't invector plus) chokes tend to be a bit open as far as constriction goes but try them and they will probably suffice for normal shooting. If you want to get some aftermarket chokes the Carlson extended chokes are good affordable chokes.

Good luck.

Dear Joe Hunter:

The new invector barrel just made my 32" Japanese A5 Magnum full choke barrel superfluous. Do you know someone, who might want it? Its cherry.

Sincerely,

Chris Bemis

Sure don't, but I'll let you know if I do.