I have a couple questions that have grown out of my original post asking for a shotgun recommendation.

1.) Some people stated that a 20ga. gun is ideal for upland hunting. Others stated that they use a 12ga. for everything (presumably including upland). My question is how would you set up a 12ga. vs. a 20ga. for upland hunting. For example: How does choke selection differ? How does shot size differ? 2 3/4" shells or 3"? Does the recommended barrel length differ between 12ga. and 20ga. for upland hunting? etc.

2.) I like old guns! My understanding is that the barrels of the older guns are not suitable for using the steel shot that is now commonly used for waterfowl hunting. My questions are: Is there any way to make older guns so that they can be used with the modern steel shot? Or, are there non-lead alternatives to steel that are legal for waterfowl hunting?

Thank you for your shotgun recommendations and thank you in advance for answers here. From my previous post I have decided that shotguns are like rifles, the ones that are the best choice for everything aren't the best choice for any one thing. What I will probably end up with is a 20ga double for upland hunting and a 12ga auto for waterfowl. Not sure which I will go looking for first!

Thanks,
Bob

Bob, people will argue the guage choice to death -- it's a 270 vs. 30-06 thing.

In some circumstances, upland hunting involves much walking, and shooting at slightly closer distances because of pointing dogs. As a result, shots are closer. Plus, a heavy gun stretches your arms much more than in a duck blind. That, in essense, is the trade-off: fatigue vs. pellet count.

At closer distances, you don't need as much lead in the air, so you can choose a smaller gauge. A 20 with a full choke will roughly put the same number of pellets in a 30" circle at 30 yards as a full choke 12 at 40 (speaking VERY rough numbers, but you get the idea). If you have very tight holding birds, and very good dogs, you can use a 28 ga.

As far as old doubles, there are at least two lead-substitutes that will function beautifully through old doubles. The main one is Bismuth, and though it is a little lighter than lead, it works fine. Just go up one size from what you would shoot in lead. HTH, Dutch.

Bob,

20 Ga settup same as 12 as far as I'm concerned. It is hard to beat a modified choke for general application, IF you are blessed with a fixed choke gun. If you don't like that, see Briley and they'll take care of you. The essence of the difference between gauges is the amount of shot they will handle. There are small differences relating to patterning for a given charge of shot in different bores, but if is not of great significance to the upland gunner. I use IC for bunnies, close in birds such as quail, mod to full for other applications. If you have an old gun NOT rated for steel, thank your stars and spend some money on Bismuth loads. My guess is that you'll do a lot more upland shooting that duck hunting. 2 3/4" shells please. Upland wildlife will fold as quick for a 20 as a 12 ga if you do your part. Three inch shells approximate the loads of the 12 ga, and again, all you're getting is more shot and recoil. Pattern and effective range should be about the same. I don't suggest you follow this to the logical end and buy a .410 but will tell you that the most humbling event of my quail hunting experience came from an old fellow with a .410 SxS. He missed one shot for the day.

I use all of the common gauges for hunting, .410 thru 12, and have used them for game ranging in size from snipe to hogs, and everything inbetween. If I had to pick one gun forever it would be my Ithaca 37 in 20 ga w/Briley tubes. 26" barrel. My pick up could not haul in one load, all the meat it's put on the table. Dove, Quail, Pheasant, rabbit, squirrel, wood duck(before steel was required), hogs, Coyotes, turkey. Never tried it on deer but have no doubt. All of this was done with the mod choke or IC. The Full is virgin, the IC only lightly used.

Hope this helps.

good to see another ithica shooter!!!

mine is an old 500 up-down and its IC/M, shoots (and kills) like a dream. If I could choose one gun for the rest of eternity... it would be hard not to choose that.

I'd recommend that you study a lot more about what each gauge is capapble of doing, along with the ammo (loads and types) thats available nowadays, too. Don't ONLY CONSIDER shotgun types and models in selecting your shotgun. Learn what a given-model will do with what loads you think you might use to hunt "this" game or shoot "those" targets, etc.



I'm planning to get a Benelli M1 20 Ga gun this early summer, instead if a 12 gagger. The Benelli twenty gagger will handle 85-95% of my upland shooting needs but with a gun thats nearly a pound and a half lighter than the 12 bore M1.



However, in 12 gauge the shotgun I wish I could afford at the moment (instead of having to wait and budget) is a Beretta 'Lite Weight' over/under shotgun. Both the 20 GA Benelli and 12 GA Beretta weigh approximately 6 pounds. I will/would shoot shot sizes in each (my handloads) no larger than 5's nor smaller than 8's (possibly 8 1/2's in rare instances; an 8 1/2 size shot is in between a #8 shot and a #9 shot). I'll also be shooting a lot of nickel and copper-plated shot loads when using #7 or #7 1/2 pellets and bigger. Hevi-Shot in the 20 gauge for specific hunts.



By learning a little about shotshell performance, you might be able to better select a gun /and barrel combination thats going to be better tailored to your VERY SPECIFIC shooting needs and wants and environments. I've been shooting for @35 years and handloading for over 30, and have accumulated a little experience and insight along the way. What I strive for in a shotshell is a balanced, well-tailored load for the job I'm trying to do. To an experienced shooter I'm probably making sense here, but to a novice I might sound like so much mush.



In a nutshell, I'd rarely shoot a load any heavier than 1 1/4 ounces in a 12 gauge for upland birds, unless I needed to shoot large pellets like 5's or 5 1/2's but still wanted as dense of a pattern as I can get. then I'd probably shoot a 1 3/8 ounce loads, thus adding pellets to the pattern by increasing 'weight' to the shotshell load without sacrificng velocity or very little. Many times I'd only shoot 1-ounce loads (trap, skeet, possibly sporting clays) at targets and doves or quail. But for forest grouse, birds over a dog that weren't flushing wildly or long distances from the muzzle, ounce and 1 1/8 ounce loads would probably suffice. For longer distances at more challenging birds, I use 1 1/4 ounce loads. Most times my loads only achieve a muzzle velocity of 1150-1285 fps. I'm covering a lot of scenarios here and hope they make sense.



In my new 20 gauge, I plan to shoot mostly one-ounce and even 7/8 ounce-loads at skeet, doves and quail, but I can go to 1 1/8-ounce 3" loads of Hevi-Shot if I have long shots - at chukars, hungarian partidge, pheasants, etc. Most times in the twenty gauge one ounce loads (using the correct pellet size to ensure pattern density at whatever range is appropriate for the bird I'm hunting) will suffice, but I can resort to the 3" Hevi-Shot shells if needed. Hope I've helped here a little.



Also, learn what you can about shell length for each gauge. I can't ever see the need for me to hunt upland birds with anything other than 2 3/4" inch shells in a 12 gauge. But in a twenty gauge, resorting to a 3" shell will give a reloader/shooter a 'more volumenous' cartridge to shoot heavier loads of shot. I could digress into reloading here, but you can learn about that later.